Kanzenshuu

Just out of curiousity, where do you guys have Future Gohan, power level wise? I recall Bulma saying he was about as strong as Trunks, who was about as strong as Namek Goku Anyway: Neiz vs the Ginyu Force. Captain Ginyu can't change bodies and Guldo can't paralyze. Cooler vs Freeza, both in their no...

I prefer the mistranslation too. That makes even less sense. The very idea that Goku, after the Zenkai, is weaker than Freeza's First Form is just plain ridiculous. Hell it already makes no sense because Piccolo and Vegeta are just in plain awe of Goku and both of them have a power level over a mill...

Goku was inconsequential in the Cell Games in general. His role was to get sick, get beaten by 19, get beaten by Cell, get beaten by a Cell Junior, and die.

Pretty sure someone already said this, but I'm seconding that "others learned kaio-ken" theory. Tien actually does seem to use kaio-ken in filler (another part of my personal fanon/canon: that Ginyu Force filler actually happened), Piccolo references being able to increase his power in sho...

I don't know where I'd end it. All of the sagas except the saiyan saga seem to tie up things themselves pretty well. But if I had to make some modifications: In all cases, Vegeta would never come back. He'd stay dead after Freeza killed him. His role in the story could easily be filled by Piccolo (e...

Not to mention, Super Saiyan Raditz would be weaker than Captain Ginyu...

Anyway Kaboom, you crossed a line when you said that Cui could actually win a fight. And Guldo could probably take him down easily as well, given that whole paralysis thing he has going for him.

I rooted for Freeza when he beat Vegeta to death, and I was disappointed when he came back. I liked to actually consider certain movies canon (not that Dragon Ball really has a canon, but whatever) because Piccolo isn't overshadowed in the first few (Cooler's Revenge and Dead Zone are some of his fi...

I know it's his true form, the one he was born in. But clearly his suppressed forms aren't things he made up, as evidenced by Chilled and Cold. I use them as a baseline: his races' base forms look like that. He's a Super (Whatever). He also can't stay in his true form all the time because he can't c...

Freeza's races' second/first forms are actually their base forms. Cooler and Freeza are mutants, and their true forms are actually Super Saiyan-esque transformations. The stronger of the two, Cooler, was only stronger than the first few Super Saiyans in his final form, but could become stronger if h...

Probably the same thing as King Piccolo. Cell was created to be an evil god, so there wasn't much he could do to redeem him, while King Piccolo was literally made of evil. With the former, he may have also been having bad memories of Freeza.

But, thanks to Freeza, saiyans are praised and loved, and hailed as a proud race.

Yep. All two of them

(double post, sorry)

Future Gohan vs Namek Goku

Merely 5 million is waaaaay too tiny. In my opinion it was at least 20 million, given his confidence in his power even after he knew he was a good bit weaker than Namek Goku at 150,000,000. Speaking of which, Future Trunks should be slightly above Namek Goku IMO... But this isn't a power levels thre...

I'll just go with that then. Have another question, even though I haven't actually gotten this far yet... how strong do you guys have the Southern Supreme Kai? A lot of people use the Z-Sword scene to say that he's an absolute weakling, but the massive boost he gave Kid Buu after being eaten and the...

He is. He never really got a chance to show it, though, and Mecha Freeza being stronger than 100% Freeza does open a few potential plotholes.

...was it stated anywhere that you have to be a certain power level to go Super Saiyan?

Also, in (I think) non-canon specials, absolute weaklings like Goku Jr and Bardock go Super Saiyan. Even as Super Saiyans, they're still weaker than form 1 Freeza.

With that strength you gave them, they still wouldn't be anywhere close to relevant.

The "he didn't have energy" thing doesn't really work. Even at 0.01% of his power, he has more than enough energy to blow up a puny planet... again it's just his pride getting in the way and the villain not using his powers in an intelligent way so the heroes can have a chance.

It's not physically impossible, it's just VERY inconsistent. Vegeta's first zenkai brought him from 18,000 to 24,000. His second brought him from 24,000 to 30,000. His third brought him to somewhere in the hundreds of thousands, but below 500,000, maybe around 300,000 (by far the most haxxed zenkai ...

This has bugged me to. Everyone always talks about how Freeza was scared of the Super Saiyan legend, but I personally think he was scared of the incredibly haxxed zenkai legend. No one's base power should get that insane that fast. Seriously, prior to Goku's incredibly haxxed x33 zenkai, he was an a...