Not true. And I don't know what manga you're reading.Kinokima wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:17 pmTBMx wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:06 pmVegeta's stated goal is actually to surpass Goku. Not merely to be different. A character who isn't trying to fulfill their stated goal and is instead doing something just for the audience's interest, is a bad character. EITHER have him say he doesn't care about being the best anymore, and just wants to be his own man, OR have him take the most efficient route within his capabilities. One or the other. IT was within his capabilities seeing how he pulled off a jump across the cosmos and learned to do it in 5 minutes.Kinokima wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:52 pm
Vegeta doing his own thing separate from Goku is not about ultimately making Vegeta stronger than Goku it’s about making the two characters distinct and being able to do different things with each character.
Also what people are missing in this thread about IT is Vegeta learned it quickly (and as I mentioned already) was not to get one over on Goku but to not make the Yadratians break their rule. Now from a narrative perspective like I said Toyo just wanted to give Vegeta a cool one off moment but from a character perspective Vegeta was doing something he didn’t have interest in (which he says earlier in the arc too) to not inconvenience the Yadratians. If anything that scene showed growth on Vegeta’s part. But instead people are fixated on Vegeta needing to use IT instead of the reason he learned it quickly in the first place (even if you could argue the rule itself was dumb which I don’t disagree with) .
Vegeta always just doing the same thing as Goku just after Goku gets old quick and in the end he is still behind Goku. It would have been the same thing with UI. Vegeta would get UI and in the next chapter Goku would have moved onto something else. That is how it always is.
So now UI May ultimately be stronger than Hakai but at least they can do different things with Goku & Vegeta and we don’t know how Vegeta’s Hakai is going be applied in the story.
Edit: Thani I agree I hated how Vegeta for SSBE in the manga too. A lot of fans hated the My Bulma/Cabba scene in the anime but I actually liked that moment much more.
I am certainly not saying every scene with Vegeta is well written or without problems. I also hated the no teacher line. But I think the argument that everything Vegeta does is wrong and every decision he makes is idiotic and regression and this is why he is always so behind Goku is just silly.
Except EVERY TIME Vegeta does the same thing as Goku he doesn’t surpass him. Realizing something isn’t working for you and trying something else is the opposite of just being prideful
It just sounds like no matter what Vegeta does you will say it is bad because it is not UI.
When Vegeta did the same thing as Goku with the SSG, SSB, MSSB line, he was actually equal to Goku. Its only when they split off with UI Omen and SSBE that Goku became superior. Then the gap widened further as they did their separate training in the Moro arc, with Goku having a whole level above Vegeta.
Vegeta learning Hakai doesn't provide any answer to the increased strength, speed, accuracy and auto dodge of UI. So this is a case of being different to be different instead of being different in a way thats in line with his stated goal of surpassing Goku. Being different in a way that is in line with his goals is good. Being differerent just for the sake of it is Rian Johnson style "subvert expectations" bad.