Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Polyphase Avatron]

Maybe Trunks trains the ROSAT.

[Noah]

Bulma knowing about Freeza (and vice-versa) is just as big of a problem as Roshi saying Chi-Chi could use moves from his school when he doesn't actually teach any moves. It's a plot hole if you want to call it one, but a very minor one that doesn't affect the plot in any way.

And do people keep ignoring me when I say Porunga restored Kuririn's body out of generosity? Seriously, having a body to be resurrected is a rule. Blame all the other times in the manga where people who lost their bodies were resurrected as plot holes.

Not at all cause Roshi teached Ox King who could simply teach his daughter the same moves.

Maybe they are not plot holes, but they might as well are. They're just the result of shitty writing.
Also, i count the 4 months as a plothole. Because it makes no sense...

It's just bad writing, I mean we never knew about Freeza race and their latent potential, this movie could explore that, and the main bad writing is not showing how the f*ck Freeza trains, some members here had great ideas, like Freeza going through hell to achieve that kinda of power up being frustated to think that may not enough to defeat the Saiyans and that would serve to develop his character even more.

Toriyama has explicitly... well, more or less... stated in "Volume F" that he doesn't have to stick with consistency if he doesn't want to, because he's the author.

If you want more than that? Expect more than that? Be disappointed. Continue to be disappointed. Now, in the past, and forever.

This is Dragon Ball.

Well is kinda sad to have an author who don't really care about his work and fans, maybe Toriyama is only interested in the money now, just like TOEI when they did GT.

What's the difference between Toriyama deciding to change things or retcon them now versus back in serialization? Is it just your own feelings on things? Or is it something more concrete?

Like, I mean... the Red Ribbon Army was destroyed. Completely. Oh, except for Dr. Gero. And he's been doing research this whole time. Why was that OK?

I posit that it's no different at all, and people are simply approaching things with too much fandom baggage.

That's not really inconsistent, this could aply as the same as Freeza army, still had some remaining, Gero was the case.

Minor detail how about this:

Shenron(Dende's) Original manga
3 wishes
Can not wish multiple people who died for over 1 year
Can wish multiple people back from the dead using 2 of the 3 wishes
Can revive people back to the ORIGINAL state

Shenron(Dende) Battle of Gods
Grants 1 wish(Pilaf proof of this)

Shenron(Dende) Resurrection F
2 wishes
Revives people in the state they where in upon death

Just between the latest movies Shenron's abilities have been nerfed and slightly buffed.

You can ask Shenlong to go away if you don't wan't any more wishes

Oh yeah? And why Pilaf didn't wish to back to his normal age to fix the first wish and after to rule the world as the third wish? Don't make any sense... I didn't though about that, but wow... That's a plothole.

Anyone get the feeling Whis is like the new King Kai? hell King Kai even got benched in the movie lol. Poor Kai, seems like Whis is gonna be the go to guy now. Huh interestingly enough, Goku first appearance in BoG is training with King Kai and now in RF his first appearance is training with Whis. Yup, Whis is the new King Kai!

Whis is better than King Kai, in my opinion, in every aspect. Design, abilities, personality, hell, even the English VA for Whis is superior to that of King Kai's. You make a great point regardless though.

Not really, King Kai is iconical, since early DB since he had the same VA as the Narrator and I can't imagine someone like Whis taking his place as a wise mentor and former master of many warriors. Whis is only superior in power if we made a comparison.

[radrappy]

Well is kinda sad to have an author who don't really care about his work and fans, maybe Toriyama is only interested in the money now, just like TOEI when they did GT.

I think when you discover how entertaining FnF is and how alive the characters feel you'll understand that no one cares more about his own work and fans than Toriyama.

[dbzfan7]

Well is kinda sad to have an author who don't really care about his work and fans, maybe Toriyama is only interested in the money now, just like TOEI when they did GT.

I think when you discover how entertaining FnF is and how alive the characters feel you'll understand that no one cares more about his own work and fans than Toriyama.

I think Toriyama cares about people, but he just doesn't about consistency. He cares more about telling the story he wants to tell and doesn't want to be held down by previous establishments. As much as I'd like for him to care more about continuity, I do kinda respect him for just doing his own thing anyway.

[radrappy]

Well is kinda sad to have an author who don't really care about his work and fans, maybe Toriyama is only interested in the money now, just like TOEI when they did GT.

I think when you discover how entertaining FnF is and how alive the characters feel you'll understand that no one cares more about his own work and fans than Toriyama.

I think Toriyama cares about people, but he just doesn't about consistency. He cares more about telling the story he wants to tell and doesn't want to be held down by previous establishments. As much as I'd like for him to care more about continuity, I do kinda respect him for just doing his own thing anyway.

yes! 100%! You deserve a medal good friend. Toriyama wants to craft entertaining stories, but also wants to have fun himself!

[The Monkey King]

Freeza: “Oh, I remember you. We met very briefly on Planet Namek, didn’t we? Where’s your friend Son Goku?”

Credit to Herms for the translation.
Huh. Seems so tiny and yet everyone blows up over it.

Then again, as I said... to be expected on this thread anymore. HATE to think what the Super thread looks like right now...

It's not the fans fault this film is constantly tripping over it's own shoe laces.

Like, I mean... the Red Ribbon Army was destroyed. Completely. Oh, except for Dr. Gero. And he's been doing research this whole time. Why was that OK?

I posit that it's no different at all, and people are simply approaching things with too much fandom baggage.

Nope it can be explained with simple in-universe logic. There was a top secret undergound research cave which Goku never bothered to look for during his raid on the RRA base. Dr. Gero was working there at the time of the attack and so didn't die.

As for Freeza and Bulma, no it can't, NOPE. They never met in the manga EVER.

[ShadowWolf87]

You should have used someone else like Chi Chi or Kuririn, because Goku has a valid reason for being a child at that age after the Saiyan origin retcon.

Saiyan physiology says Saiyans stay in their fighting prime longer, that doesn't necessarily mean stay a child longer.

Jaco tells us they stay child size until puberty to help them stay off the radar of aliens they invade the planets of. Then they spurt into an adult and remain in their prime until old age sets in and they begin to rapidly deteriorate.

This is why it's okay for hybrids like Goten or Trunks to stay midgets or grow normally like Gohan depending on the genes they inherit.

So Goku didn't hit puberty until after he was 15? o.O

[ShadowWolf87]

Freeza: “Oh, I remember you. We met very briefly on Planet Namek, didn’t we? Where’s your friend Son Goku?”

Credit to Herms for the translation.
Huh. Seems so tiny and yet everyone blows up over it.

Then again, as I said... to be expected on this thread anymore. HATE to think what the Super thread looks like right now...

It's not the fans fault this film is constantly tripping over it's own shoe laces.

Like, I mean... the Red Ribbon Army was destroyed. Completely. Oh, except for Dr. Gero. And he's been doing research this whole time. Why was that OK?

I posit that it's no different at all, and people are simply approaching things with too much fandom baggage.

Nope it can be explained with simple in-universe logic. There was a top secret undergound research cave which Goku never bothered to look for during his raid on the RRA base. Dr. Gero was working there at the time of the attack and so didn't die.

As for Freeza and Bulma, no it can't, NOPE. They never met in the manga EVER.

And this impacts the plot how?

How can you possibly, and I mean possibly, let something so literally insignificant and tiny bother you so much as a non-impactful throwaway line? Seriously. This is what I cannot grasp about the reaction to this.

Were this changing something serious, if it affected the plot at all, I can see people being that upset... but it doesn't.

[fexus]

So, we went from people complaining about Golden Freeza to Freeza meeting Bulma. That's an interesting direction to go to.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

So Goku didn't hit puberty until after he was 15? o.O

Yep. Not until sometime after the age of 15 when he defeats Daimao and before 18 when he shows up at the 23rd Budokai.

[SSJGFrieza]

Gohan could still go Ultimate in BoG yet he can't even go SSJ2 in F?

You don't degrade that much, even after 7 years of not training he could still SSJ2 in the Buu Saga, i'm convinced now more than ever that he wasn't supposed to go Ultimate in BoG.

[ShadowWolf87]

Gohan could still go Ultimate in BoG yet he can't even go SSJ2 in F?

You don't degrade that much, even after 7 years of not training he could still SSJ2 in the Buu Saga, i'm convinced now more than ever that he wasn't supposed to go Ultimate in BoG.

Unless it's similar to his ability to hit SSJ2 one time due to his anger over Videl's injuries but he struggled and couldn't reach it after that.

Gohan slacks off a great deal, he may well have been on the cusp of dormancy.

[dbzfan7]

Gohan could still go Ultimate in BoG yet he can't even go SSJ2 in F?

You don't degrade that much, even after 7 years of not training he could still SSJ2 in the Buu Saga, i'm convinced now more than ever that he wasn't supposed to go Ultimate in BoG.

Unless it's similar to his ability to hit SSJ2 one time due to his anger over Videl's injuries but he struggled and couldn't reach it after that.

Gohan slacks off a great deal, he may well have been on the cusp of dormancy.

I think he means on the lines that Gohan was an SSJ pretty much in all promotional material and most tv spots til later they changed that. From a production stand point it really sounds like they intended him to be an SSJ the whole time in the previous movie.

[TJVY]

I think he means on the lines that Gohan was an SSJ pretty much in all promotional material and most tv spots til later they changed that. From a production stand point it really sounds like they intended him to be an SSJ the whole time in the previous movie.

Yep and I have said this multiple times, he was definitely supposed to be a SSJ the whole time. They may as well have never changed it during production, but like the above poster said, from an in-universe standpoint he could have just been on the cusp of dormancy.

[dbzfan7]

I think he means on the lines that Gohan was an SSJ pretty much in all promotional material and most tv spots til later they changed that. From a production stand point it really sounds like they intended him to be an SSJ the whole time in the previous movie.

Yep and I have said this multiple times, he was definitely supposed to be a SSJ the whole time. They may as well have never changed it during production, but like the above poster said, from an in-universe standpoint he could have just been on the cusp of dormancy.

Yes but this is the general thread, so I gave a general answer. In-Universe is another spot.

[Sora Saiyan]

It’s really embarrassing to have this called a “screenplay”. It’d probably be more accurate to say it’s just a memo. It’s simply something I idly dashed off for the staff, just to help explain the flow of the story and the dialogue! Never in a million years did I think it would get published. If any of you are trying to become scriptwriters, please don’t use this as an example!!

I guess you could say that some things are difficult for anyone but the original author to write, because only the original author can freely mess around with what’s already been established. A scriptwriter would get tied up trying not to screw with the original story, so in that respect they’d probably have a harder time messing around with things.

Then there’s the dialogue. The original author knows each character’s personality and backstory, so they can naturally think up dialogue that suits them.

I actually love that Toriyama has said this. That part where he says "only the original author can mess around with what's already been established" is cool.

[Bullza]

So I saw the movie today!

I really did enjoy it, though I couldn't understand what was being said exactly the synopsis meant I knew what was going on.

The animation was nice, there were so many complaints about that early on but it definitely looked better than the last one. There was a lot more CGI though it I'd look much better than the BOG too. Some dodgy effects but otherwise no problem.

There was a lot of action, a lot more than the previous movie. Overall the fighting in this movie was better than in BOG however there was no one fight scene as good as the SSJGod Goku vs Beerus fight.

The Vegeta vs Frieza fight was the only thing that was disappointing as it was so brief. It was still basically a Goku movie.

A few odd things power level wise but I can't say I was that bothered by it.

I'd say that once its been dubbed and I watch it again then yeah I'd say that this was better than the last movie. It didn't add much to the universe but it was the more entertaining movie.

I'd give it a 7/10.

[Bullza]

Oh and did anyone bring up the One Piece reference in the movie?

Also that scene in the manga where Goku attacks Whis and you see the SSJ God, that never happened.

[VegettoEX]

Nope it can be explained with simple in-universe logic. There was a top secret undergound research cave which Goku never bothered to look for during his raid on the RRA base. Dr. Gero was working there at the time of the attack and so didn't die.

Yes! Exactly!

Most of what people toss out as "plotholes" aren't actually that, and just need a little clever in-universe wiggle-room to make them work. My points stands exactly as I made it: most of this stuff is absolutely no different from an ass-pull of "Oh wait no the Red Ribbon Army still technically exists bwuahaha!" The only difference is: "it's 2015 and I'm a fan and I think I know everything and I specifically know better than the author so everything he writes I will automatically on principle disagree with."

It's tired. It's eye-roll inducing. We get it. We really do.

It's one thing to just not like something. I don't like the story he told in "Dragon Ball Minus". I really don't. I can understand someone not liking "Battle of Gods". I really can.

You can have conversations about these things, comparing events and story-writing techniques, going back-and-forth with other fans...

And you can do it without being total toxic monsters to each other. Seriously.

You're allowed to dislike things. You're allowed to want more consistency than there is. At the end of the day, though, you have to realize which series it is you're talking about here, and which author it is you're talking about here. Step back. Perspective. Really. For reals. Absolutely for reals. Please.

If you people want to keep conversing, please.

[Doctor.]

Not at all cause Roshi teached Ox King who could simply teach his daughter the same moves.

Roshi says at the start of his training with Goku and Kuririn that he doesn't teach any moves. So no, Gyuumao couldn't have taught any moves to his daughter.