Better Sound Quality on Original Run of DBZ in Japan

ect5150 · Post by **ect5150** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:26 pm

Finally got done with my "equalization" (time has been short for me lately).

Since DBZ is mono, the VHS copy is in one channel and the DBox is in the other. All I did was play with the volume and the treble (of the DBox, left the VHS alone)

http://www.mediafire.com/?1gzdye3yzmw

See if you can tell which source is in which channel. In all honesty, someone with more audio experience could probably get a closer match (we need someone from the bootleg concert scene).

That said, the VHS audio is actually very good, but I'm just guessing the audio went thru a different prep process for the DVD as opposed for the broadcast (instead of the argument that they lost the original audio). I always thought the audio was stored with the film on the film as such:

DVDs generally have a lower average output level than other video sources (so its common to have to turn up the volume on them). Apparently we can take away from this that VHS audio is/was good enough for mono audio produced 20 years ago.

kei17 · Post by **kei17** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:52 am

Sorry for necro-posting.
My brother ripped other episodes with better VCR in Linear PCM audio so I uploaded another example. This one is easier to recognize the difference I think. Since I do not own the single DVD includes the same episode, please compare this with your own one.

http://www.4shared.com/file/129827454/6 ... rifle.html

kei17 · Post by **kei17** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:29 am

I found some interesting pieces of information about this problem.
On some episodes of the DVD release of Ultraman Leo, they put an alternative audio track includes better sounds which was ripped from cinetapes that were originally used for the original run. There is a video they made to compare it with the audio from the film.
http://www.dus.jp/digital_ultra_series/ ... o_cine.wmv

Cinetape is a kind of magnetic sound recording tape that is used for editing sounds of movie/drama/anime and synchronization of sounds with the film. It has four different tracks that each of them has separated voice/SE/BGM/something. Japanese TV channels usually use optical sound recording track of the master film instead of cinetape for re-run because of its unhandiness and sometimes production companies such as Toei threw it away after the first broadcast. This blog says that Toei continued discarding cinetapes longer than other companies.
http://ikeruhibi.cocolog-nifty.com/blog ... _6028.html

Cinetape

My conclusion:
Fuji TV must have used cinetapes which include better audio for the original run of DB series, but Toei probably threw them away after that. Now getting video-taped original run can be the only way to watch the Japanese dub of DB/DBZ in the best sound quality.

Daimo-Rukiri · Post by **Daimo-Rukiri** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:19 pm

I remember watching Dragon Ball Z in the early 90s when it was originally airing, I always thought it had better audio... While the video has defiantly been remastered/restored I still wish the superior audio was there. I mean, The Son Gou Vs Freezer fight just isn't the same...

kei17 · Post by **kei17** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:00 am

Daimo-Rukiri wrote:I remember watching Dragon Ball Z in the early 90s when it was originally airing, I always thought it had better audio... While the video has defiantly been remastered/restored I still wish the superior audio was there. I mean, The Son Gou Vs Freezer fight just isn't the same...

Oh so you were in Japan at that time? You are one of the witnesses.

I personally started thinking it's almost ridiculous to buy any current Japanese-audio-only release. The sound quality on the original run is just enough to make me think so.

MarcFBR · Post by **MarcFBR** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:56 am

kei17 wrote: Oh so you were in Japan at that time? You are one of the witnesses.

There are no 'witnesses' for content in peoples memories for years ago.

You know how many GROUPS of people remember entire scenes that don't exist in movies and tv shows?

For a number of years I could swear there was a Ghostbusters 3.

kei17 · Post by **kei17** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:10 am

godofchaos wrote:There are no 'witnesses' for content in peoples memories for years ago.

You know how many GROUPS of people remember entire scenes that don't exist in movies and tv shows?

For a number of years I could swear there was a Ghostbusters 3.

So what's the point? I showed you people here many real evidences. I am saying he is one of the witnesses who give my assumption weight. Read through this topic before you say such pointless thing.

SSVegetto · Post by **SSVegetto** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:15 am

kei17, so what are you going to do now? If you have better audio sources for episodes 1-291, are you going to back them up digitally and use them for your own personal use? It could be possible to sync those audios up with the Japanese video.

kei17 · Post by **kei17** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:24 am

SSVegetto wrote:kei17, so what are you going to do now? If you have better audio sources for episodes 1-291, are you going to back them up digitally and use them for your own personal use? It could be possible to sync those audios up with the Japanese video.

Now I have only DBZ episode 142 to 148. I will continue searching for video-taped episodes and I'd like to complete them someday. I also spread this big information by my website and enlighten Japanese fanboys. Then someday I will make Toei mention this problem officially. These are all what I would like to do.

SSVegetto · Post by **SSVegetto** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:32 am

kei17 wrote:
SSVegetto wrote:kei17, so what are you going to do now? If you have better audio sources for episodes 1-291, are you going to back them up digitally and use them for your own personal use? It could be possible to sync those audios up with the Japanese video.
Now I have only DBZ episode 142 to 148. I will continue searching for video-taped episodes and I'd like to complete them someday. I also spread this big information by my website and enlighten Japanese fanboys. Then someday I will make Toei mention this problem officially. These are all what I would like to do.

I remember borrowing a VHS tape from some kid in high school (5 years ago). It did have a DBZ Japanese episode recorded on it. I don't remember how many. But I do remember at the time I had no idea what episode it was. But I now know, it was near the end of series were Chi Chi and Bulma were partying, and dancing. It was probably episode 289 or something. I could perhaps contact this person again.

That's kind of funny though. Toei releasing a Japanese Dragon Box Version 2 : Now with better audio. I don't see that happening. Maybe they would make a blu-ray release though in the future. Also, Toei would probably tell you to go watch Kai. Since that has better audio.

kei17 · Post by **kei17** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:59 am

SSVegetto wrote:I remember borrowing a VHS tape from some kid in high school (5 years ago). It did have a DBZ Japanese episode recorded on it. I don't remember how many. But I do remember at the time I had no idea what episode it was. But I now know, it was near the end of series were Chi Chi and Bulma were partying, and dancing. It was probably episode 289 or something. I could perhaps contact this person again.

That's awesome. Does he live in US or Japan?

That's kind of funny though. Toei releasing a Japanese Dragon Box Version 2 : Now with better audio. I don't see that happening. Maybe they would make a blu-ray release though in the future. Also, Toei would probably tell you to go watch Kai. Since that has better audio.

I think they've already lost the cinetapes. In that case, it means the best audio has been lost forever. They cannot release DBOX 2 with better audio unless they collect taped off episodes. There is a case of a Japanese DVD release in which the video-taped footage is used.

SSVegetto · Post by **SSVegetto** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:17 am

kei17 wrote:That's awesome. Does he live in US or Japan?

United States, I'm not friends with him. My brother is. He doesn't live too far away from me. I think it was one of his relatives that lived in Japan that actually recorded it. I'm not 100% sure on this though. I may ask him for details for the heck of it. To see if he still has this stuff, and where he got it from.

kei17 wrote: I think they've already lost the cinetapes. In that case, it means the best audio has been lost forever. They cannot release DBOX 2 with better audio unless they collect taped off episodes. There is a case of a Japanese DVD release in which the video-taped footage that an ordinary person offered is used.

But that's what I was trying to say is if you did collect the audio sources from the VHS tapes. And you gave it to Toei. Then Toei could release this stuff, if it's that worth it. If that is your goal of course.

kei17 · Post by **kei17** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:43 am

SSVegetto wrote:United States, I'm not friends with him. My brother is. He doesn't live too far away from me. I think it was one of his relatives that lived in Japan that actually recorded it. I'm not 100% sure on this though. I may ask him for details for the heck of it. To see if he still has this stuff, and where he got it from.

I see. Now I wait hopefully for good news from you

But that's what I was trying to say is if you did collect the audio sources from the VHS tapes. And you gave it to Toei. Then Toei could release this stuff, if it's that worth it. If that is your goal of course.

That's a good idea. But I cannot do that unless Toei buttons down whether they still have the cinetapes or not. Toei does not mention it.

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:17 am

kei17 wrote:I think they've already lost the cinetapes. In that case, it means the best audio has been lost forever. They cannot release DBOX 2 with better audio unless they collect taped off episodes. There is a case of a Japanese DVD release in which the video-taped footage is used.

Wow, that is interesting. What series was that? Was it simply a movie or TV special, or an entire series??

kei17 · Post by **kei17** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:53 am

SSj_Rambo wrote:Wow, that is interesting. What series was that? Was it simply a movie or TV special, or an entire series??

That was an old Japanese TV show "Kyosen x Maetake: Geba Geba 90ppun!". Most of tapes of the show were thrown away after the first broadcasting, but one of the staff people found his personal video-taped entire footage. It was recorded on reel-to-reel video tapes that had been distributed even before U-matic.

Puto · Post by **Puto** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:45 am

Wouldn't english fansubs from the days before FUNimation started dubbing DBZ be recorded from the original audio?

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:26 am

Puto wrote:Wouldn't english fansubs from the days before FUNimation started dubbing DBZ be recorded from the original audio?

Not quite. Most fansubbed VHS tapes are recordings of recordings of recordings. So most of the ones scattered around wouldn't exactly have the kind of audio we're hearing from Kei's vid.

kei17 · Post by **kei17** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:55 am

Sorry for necro-posting again. I have a good piece of news.
I found a man who has the entire DB series (includes TV specials) on Betamax tapes. He said he was willing to provide these tapes to Toei Animation for the next release ithat might come. Now the only problem is Toei itself. They have been ignoring my questions about the sound quality on DBOX releases. I have already sent a mail to Toei about this offer, but they are not likely to send a reply to me, I think.

MarcFBR · Post by **MarcFBR** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:16 am

kei17 wrote: I have already sent a mail to Toei about this offer, but they are not likely to send a reply to me, I think.

Then it's not really news, and not really worthy of you necroposting.

Shoo fly, don't bother me.

edit- And this post may have been meaner than even I tend to, but really, some guy has tapes? Is this the stepping stone for a worthwhile necropost?

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:34 am

godofchaos wrote:
kei17 wrote: I have already sent a mail to Toei about this offer, but they are not likely to send a reply to me, I think.
Then it's not really news, and not really worthy of you necroposting.

Shoo fly, don't bother me.

edit- And this post may have been meaner than even I tend to, but really, some guy has tapes? Is this the stepping stone for a worthwhile necropost?

You seem like a really angry person.

Kanzenshuu

Better Sound Quality on Original Run of DBZ in Japan

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