DBZ Movie 8: a "false" attempt at Super Saiyan God?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I'm not sure the combined energy needs to get amplified. In the case that we're dealing with Saiyans, which is pretty much the standard, they don't need to even come close to matching the characters full power. The Super Saiyan forms are multipliers. Just restoring Goku's base and then increasing it a little would give him a tremendous boost afterwards with the transformation.

For example, say Goku and the other hero Saiyans started the battle in Movie 8 with a hypothetical max base form power of 10 million. As the fight dragged on, all of them were beaten down to about 30% of their power. If almost all of that power was sent to Goku, even ignoring Piccolo and his much larger base power for right now, that already totals up to 12 million. Tat's a pretty decent increase at Super Saiyan. This continues with the others as well, even using GT logic where if you actually agree that base Goku may be leagues ahead of everyone else's transformed states, they only need to channel their ki into his base pool and let his transformations do most of the work.

But the Super Saiyan forms are not real multipliers according to guidebooks, the draw out dormant power that is 50 times greater than their base (100 times greater for SS2, etc). They are not techniques that are stated to amplify the user's power like the Kamehameha, Kaio-ken, or Fusion.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

But the Super Saiyan forms are not real multipliers according to guidebooks, the draw out dormant power that is 50 times greater than their base (100 times greater for SS2, etc). They are not techniques that are stated to amplify the user's power like the Kamehameha, Kaio-ken, or Fusion.

Of course they aren't amplification techniques like the ones you mentioned, the Super Saiyan forms are, of course, transformations. After browsing back through the guidebooks though, pretty much none of them have that sort of phrasing. The various entries on the various forms either don't specify anything and only mention "increasing power" or "drawing out hidden potential" in the generalist sense, which they do, or they just tell you how much of a boost the form grants. The former usually happens when a multiplier hasn't been given to a specific transformation yet.

[Kaboom]

It's easy to notice the general "borrowing power from other people is HIGHLY effective" trend in other works up to now. It always comes across as much more than simply adding everyone's power together. The method of producing Super Saiyan God just seems to be the latest and greatest example of the concept.

[Kid Buu]

If I recall correctly, they did this a few times in GT as well, with the other Saiyans making SSJ4 Goku a lot stronger, when their powers should have been negligible compared to his.

Don't forget the Saiyans also lent Bebi Vegeta their power, allowing him to transform.

[dbzfan7]

Regarding movie 8, I guess maybe their bodies were wrecked and too sore to move, but they still had loads of ki.

[Blade]

The 'lets hold hands in a ring and power up to Super Saiyan around Goku' thing is a trope that became well and truly tired out in GT. The obsession with 'Saiyan energy' is something that the writers started with Baby and used again in GT every time Goku needed a strength boost. I wasn't surprised to see them bring it back for Battle of Gods, but I really rather that they hadn't - even if they were intentionally trying to add a little bit of continuity between 'Z' and 'GT'.

I think the lending of energy in Movie 8 is a little less obsessed with the 'Saiyan' part of the equation and more interested with Goku embodying the will and camaraderie of all of the fallen fighters, there's a "this is everyone's power channeled through me' sort of feel to it that lacks the Goku-centric theme of the rituals in Battle of Gods and GT, which have much more of a 'no-one else apart from Goku can do this' feel.

[Reading Rainbow]

Regarding movie 8, I guess maybe their bodies were wrecked and too sore to move, but they still had loads of ki.

I agree with this.

When they donate ki it adds onto Goku's base form, then with the SSJ multiplier he's able to overpower Broli. Without Vegeta's ki, Goku would not have won - this is the best way I can explain all that anyways...

[DBZGTKOSDH]

But the Super Saiyan forms are not real multipliers according to guidebooks, the draw out dormant power that is 50 times greater than their base (100 times greater for SS2, etc). They are not techniques that are stated to amplify the user's power like the Kamehameha, Kaio-ken, or Fusion.

Of course they aren't amplification techniques like the ones you mentioned, the Super Saiyan forms are, of course, transformations. After browsing back through the guidebooks though, pretty much none of them have that sort of phrasing. The various entries on the various forms either don't specify anything and only mention "increasing power" or "drawing out hidden potential" in the generalist sense, which they do, or they just tell you how much of a boost the form grants. The former usually happens when a multiplier hasn't been given to a specific transformation yet.

Well yeah, it's not worded like that, but if you combine all the statements, the result is what I said, isn't it?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Well yeah, it's not worded like that, but if you combine all the statements, the result is what I said, isn't it?

Yeah, if you combine everything, both new and old. If you look at them and replace all of the generalized, and usually outdated as of each new guidebook, statements about drawing out hidden power (to the limits) with the newest information we have about the forms, then that doesn't really seem to be the case. Not to me, at least.

I mean, you have statements like Super Saiyan 3 drawing a Saiyan's hidden potential out to their limit. That same statement was made about Super Saiyan 4 in the guides after it was introduced though...so what is the limit? Is a Saiyan's maximum potential always 400 times their base or whatever Super Saiyan 4's increase is? What about if Chozenshu #4 says that Super Saiyan God draws their potential out to the limit too?

In reality, all these sorts of statements mean is that the form increases their strength and/or was the strongest one we had at the time of printing and there wasn't any more specific information about it to be found...except some of them are not the strongest anymore and we know exactly how much most the important ones increases the character's power now. If the part about hidden potential absolutely needs to be retained in some way, then I'd say the forms themselves are that "hidden potential".

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I mean, you have statements like Super Saiyan 3 drawing a Saiyan's hidden potential out to their limit. That same statement was made about Super Saiyan 4 in the guides after it was introduced though...so what is the limit? Is a Saiyan's maximum potential always 400 times their base or whatever Super Saiyan 4's increase is?

Well, since Goku's dormant power < Gohan's dormant power, and since SS3 is the limit while Ultimate is beyond the limit, and since we also have SS3 Goku < U. Gohan, but then we have SS4 as the limit, and SS4 Goku > U. Gohan, so I guess we have a new limit for SS4 that is beyond Ultimate.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

I think the lending of energy in Movie 8 is a little less obsessed with the 'Saiyan' part of the equation and more interested with Goku embodying the will and camaraderie of all of the fallen fighters, there's a "this is everyone's power channeled through me' sort of feel to it that lacks the Goku-centric theme of the rituals in Battle of Gods and GT, which have much more of a 'no-one else apart from Goku can do this' feel.

I'm with this, Goku was the target because Goku was the only one who could physically stand; it was a very utilitarian thing.

Piccolo being able to empower Goku enough to let him dispatch Slug in one blow, when Slug was previously kicking him around effortlessly, tells me that there's nothing more complicated at work here than "in the movies, donating energy = EXTREME POWER".

I agree to the principal, not to the example. Piccolo was never utterly spent in that movie, he actually had the energy to give; frankly Goku's entire fight with Slug was a 10 minute breather for the guy. Unlike Broly, where everyone's on their last leg, Goku just happens to be the only one who keeps getting up.