Did the characters become too powerful?

[Mr. Piccolo]

Did the fighting characters in the series become too powerful? Some folks I have introduced the series to felt that the fights in the later portion of the series were becoming ridiculous, and not in a good way. Comments often included things like “how can these guys fight and not blow up the world with their power?” I used to dismiss these comments because I felt the insane power of the characters was fun, even if it was silly.

However, after reading the early portion of the manga and watching the Dragon Ball anime I am staring to wonder if these folks may have had a point. With the exception of Roshi’s destruction of the moon and some of the feats of Piccolo Daimao and Piccolo Jr., the fights in the early portion of the series were much tamer and easier to follow. The action seemed to flow better and there is a more martial arts feel to the early fights, whereas the later part of the series feels more like a Western-style comic book.

Does anyone here think that the characters became too strong by the end of the series, or do you think the power escalation of the DBZ era was a good thing?

[Kid Buu]

I think so.

If you compare Goku's fights with Yamcha, Tao Pai Pai, and Piccolo Daimao; there definitely feels like a progression in power there. I don't really get that impression from Freeza to Buu, its usually just a planet being blown up.

[Landcross]

I guess that was my biggest complaint from Cell to Buu. They were both just supremely unkillable, even if you reduced them to little bits. Everybody just reached astronomical levels. Raditz, Nappa and Vegeta from the Saiyan Saga were supposed to be leaps and bounds above the power of anything on Earth, and could essentially be beaten by Krillin's little finger by the Cell Saga.

[Kendamu]

I do, but I felt that Toriyama was poking fun at how powerful they had gotten when he wrote the Buu Arc. The story itself, once the tournament was interrupted, was serious, but the outsider perspective of the author and the readers looking in on Dragon World was gag-like. Sometimes it wasn't so subtle, but other times it was. Because of the gag feel, though, I had a. Lot of fun with how ridiculous it got. Especially as Goku was only able to kill Buu because Mr. Satan helped him out. It was very much a full-circle "Oolong wishes for panties" sort of moment to end the last big villain fight in the series.

In short, they became too powerful. The way the story was told played to the strengths of that exact flaw, though.

[RandomGuy96]

I think so.

If you compare Goku's fights with Yamcha, Tao Pai Pai, and Piccolo Daimao; there definitely feels like a progression in power there. I don't really get that impression from Freeza to Buu, its usually just a planet being blown up.

It requires you to pay close attention, but it's there:

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=15373

[Cipher]

I don't think they became powerful enough.

[cRookie_Monster]

TBH this was the way I felt. Piccolo could blow up the moon easily. Frieza could destroy a planet easily. After the Frieza saga none of it made a lot of sense to me. Namek was destroyed. That made sense. How the earth survived the later battles was just ???

That's the reason I don't get all upset about the Goku vs Superman stuff. I was always a Marvel fan growing up, and people used to joke when heroes got too powerful, "Well you might as well put him in blue tights and give him a red cape". Supes was a joke because he was too overpowered, and so was Goku. infinity = infinity. They both grow in power to whatever the story line needs.

Just my feelings, but it's all still fun and I can put that stuff aside. I wrote SSJ5 and Broly themes lol.

[DBZ Mick]

I think so.

Maybe if it was handled better they could come up with more believable villains post Freeza. Or even before. At the end of Z, they're now more powerful than Gods and such... I mean as of Battle of Gods, Goku can now even become one.

[RandomGuy96]

the end of Z, they're now more powerful than Gods and such... I mean as of Battle of Gods, Goku can now even become one.

Goku became stronger than the gods like five minutes (from our perspective) after the first god was introduced. Then we meet another god, and Goku quickly surpasses him as well. These are both before even Freeza.

[Vegard Aune]

Tao Pai Pai could prove his being the biggest badass yet by killing Blue with his tounge, using a pillar thrown by himself as transportation, and just generally being kinda untouchable to Goku at first.
Piccolo could prove his being the biggest badass yet by blowing up an entire city.
Freeza could prove his being the biggest badass yet by annihilating entire planets.
Cell could prove his being the biggest badass yet because... they say so? Because he obstinately refuses to die no matter what?
Boo could prove his being the biggest badass yet because... they say so? Because he obstinately refuses to die no matter what?
Beers could prove his being the biggest badass yet because... Kaioshin is afraid of him? Which also applies to Boo?
Whis could prove his being the biggest badass yet because...

Yeah, you get the point. At a certain point the story reached a level where the characters were so unfathomably overpowered that the only thing they can reasonably do to demonstrate their power is giving someone else a decent fight. So we can see roughly how powerful the two characters fighting there and then are in relation to one another, but in the grand scheme of things, we don't really see any clear evidence that Cell is stronger than Freeza, that Boo is stronger than Cell, or that Beers is stronger than Boo. Somewhere around either Vegeta or Freeza they simply hit a point where the characters had already grown so powerful that there was pretty much no way to properly convey it. I mean look at Super Saiyan God Goku VS Beers. Sure, there is a lot of collateral damage and stuff blowing up around them... but really, in effect we don't really see anything in that battle that gives the impression that these two are on a different level than Goku and Vegeta were during their first fight. Because there's essentially no way of doing this save for having them accidentally destroy the entire solar system.


In short; Yes. Yes they did.

[RandomGuy96]

Actually, we know Buu is stronger than Freeza because he can perform a planet busting feat that displays literally hundreds of thousands of times more power than is needed to destroy the Earth, FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR beyond anything Freeza did or was stated to be capable of. In his second weakest form. And he was implied to be holding back when he did so. And he has at least six forms stronger than this one.

Oh, and counting the anime, Pure Buu destroys stars and Gohan-Buu nearly destroys the entire universe just by getting angry.

[Cipher]

While I don't think power increases were properly conveyed during most of the Cell arc, I'm going to go ahead and disagree that the Boo arc also has this shortcoming.

At least in the anime, the Super Saiyan 3 Goku vs Boo fight on the Kaioshin planet is absolutely brimming with crazy shit, from indents being made across the entire surface with a punch, to raising mountains with their ki, to the sheer power in the way its conveyed. I think I'd be effectively convinced that they were operating at a beyond-Freeza level by the visuals alone, even without the story backing that up.

Ditto for the Gotenks vs. Boo fight, where the sheer level of insanity in their techniques is something well beyond what we'd have seen previously. They tear holes in dimensions by yelling.

It does become less consistent though.

[RandomGuy96]

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=15373

Just gonna post this again, and emphasize how ridiculously powerful this makes Pure Buu in comparison to earlier characters.

Freeza's actual feats and statements have him at the VERY best able to generate a blast eauivalent to 5,000 Earth busters (based almost entirely on his battle power compared to Vegeta's) or so at max power in his strongest form. Buu can generate a blast equivalent to over 416,000 Earth busters while suppressed and in his second weakest form. His actual power is probably like x2-x4 that Vanishing Ball in his pure form. And his strongest form is like 20 times stronger than his pure form...

And again, Anime Buuhan nearly destroyed the universe in a rage. What else do you want?

[DBZ Mick]

the end of Z, they're now more powerful than Gods and such... I mean as of Battle of Gods, Goku can now even become one.

Goku became stronger than the gods like five minutes (from our perspective) after the first god was introduced. Then we meet another god, and Goku quickly surpasses him as well. These are both before even Freeza.

Yeah, somehow forgot about that. Kami and Kaio...

[rereboy]

Actually, we know Buu is stronger than Freeza because he can perform a planet busting feat that displays literally hundreds of thousands of times more power than is needed to destroy the Earth, FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR beyond anything Freeza did or was stated to be capable of. In his second weakest form. And he was implied to be holding back when he did so. And he has at least six forms stronger than this one.

Freeza destroyed a planet with 10 times the gravity of Earth in his first form easily. Considering that gravity, its probable that the planet was WAY larger than Earth, maybe larger than any planet in our solar system since Jupiter, the largest planet in our solar system has a gravity only about 2.53 times stronger than Earth. Not to mention that Cold even comments how tiny Earth is when he sees it and not to mention how much stronger Freeza is in his true form compared to his first form. So I don't think that really proves anything. If anything, Freeza destroying a planet with that kind of gravity in his first form seems as impressive or even more impressive than what Kid Buu did, and there's worlds of power between them.

[thatdbzguy]

Great. Now there's yet another thing everyone here hates about DBZ.

I wasn't bothered by how powerful they became, but I guess I have to now.

[Wibbs]

Great. Now there's yet another thing everyone here hates about DBZ.

I wasn't bothered by how powerful they became, but I guess I have to now.

You don't have to. Besides I don't think it's a case of people hating it, It's just whether or not they thought the character became too powerful. It isn't "do you hate the characters for becoming more powerful?". If you're not bothered then that's fine, don't be bothered, but don't think it's as though everyone is force feeding you another reason to hate DragonBall.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I don't dislike how strong the characters have gotten. I dislike how a lot of the fandom has interpreted that strength and applied various labels to it, typically without realizing the amount of space the explosions would have to cover, as well as the amount of energy they would have to retain at that size, to accomplish said feats.

[ABED]

When you think about it, by the Cyborg arc, the characters have gotten to the point that even the tiniest blast would be WAY more powerful than that blast Piccolo used to destroy Papaya Island. I guess size of the blast doesn't necessarily have to do with its power.

[Kaboom]

Great. Now there's yet another thing everyone here hates about DBZ.
I wasn't bothered by how powerful they became, but I guess I have to now.

It's not something "everyone hates," so speak for yourself. Or even better yet, just get a new shtick because this one's really starting to annoy people.