Why do people blame Ocean for butchering the show?

[Kakacarrottop]

I know Youtube comments shouldn't be used as a basis for anything, but i've read a lot of comments on Youtube videos for the "Ocean dub" which attack the company Ocean, saying they censored the series and butchered the scripts like 4Kids. Nearly all these comments are for videos from the 1996 Saiyan / Namek saga dub, which was produced completely by FUNimation (and to some small extent Saban). Other people have said FUNimation "saved" the series when they "took over" from Ocean since they stopped the censorship.

I just can't imagine how someone could watch these episodes, see the credits which state "Produced by FUNimation", see the old FUNimation logo at the end, then come to the conclusion it was Ocean behind everything.

[VegettoEX]

Because they're not watching the credits, they didn't live through that time period to know any better, and it doesn't help that today's FUNimation actively avoids referring to it as their own production.

General fans don't - and one could argue shouldn't need to - have an understanding of the differences and distinctions between production companies, voice recording studios, which aspects get out-sourced, etc.

It's also a bit of religious zealousness, too. It's far easier to attack a dumb version that you actively dislike when you don't know / don't have to know / don't want to know that many of the same people worked on both versions.

[EXBadguy]

Man, I remember myself being one of those fools who had this mindset the Ocean was like 4kids and were behind their own thing ages ago. Though to this day I still think Funimation "saved" the show from Ocean, but that was becuz of the voice acting itself. It was great for its time at the very least(Cell and Buu of course). Aside from Drummond, McNeil, and Kaye, the rest of the voices from Ocean were meh to me.

[DemonRin]

It should also be worth noting that not everyone who calls it the "Ocean Dub" thinks that means that Ocean were 100% responsible for the product.

Just calling it the "Ocean Dub" is a lot easier than saying every time "The Early FUNimation dub that they subcontracted to Ocean".

So sometimes people may be airing their anger and venting but in am ore general way directed at the "Ocean Dub" and that comes out to a lot of complaining about Ocean.

[Theophrastus]

Eh...presumably Funimation made the actual decisions on how everything was actually executed, so they deserve the largest portion of the blame, but saying that Saban was only involved "to some small extent" doesn't feel quite right. Saban were the ones actually funding the production for the most part, and were the ones who mandated that the censorship be done to the extent that it was.

[VegettoEX]

Eh...presumably Funimation made the actual decisions on how everything was actually executed, so they deserve the largest portion of the blame, but saying that Saban was only involved "to some small extent" doesn't feel quite right. Saban were the ones actually funding the production for the most part, and were the ones who mandated that the censorship be done to the extent that it was.

While that's true, the censoring was only part of the overall "problem" with the dubbing practices. Barry Watson was and remained producer, overseeing basically the entire tone and approach to the show. This included the dialog rewrites under his overall direction along with voice casting and general decision-making.

[Mewzard]

While that's true, the censoring was only part of the overall "problem" with the dubbing practices. Barry Watson was and remained producer, overseeing basically the entire tone and approach to the show. This included the dialog rewrites under his overall direction along with voice casting and general decision-making.

Which is why I'm glad Barry Watson left. Pretty sure he's the one Sean Schemmel referred to as not sharing views with the people in charge at the time.

You know, you could extend the talk about people not knowing FUNimation was involved with Ocean to common fans not knowing that most of the people involved with their beloved FUNi Z dub also worked on Kai when they hate on Kai's dub on youtube (not only on the actual replaced voice actors, but in some cases, falsely associating a change in how a voice actor does some role to a completely different actor).

Nostalgia is a powerful thing (not always for good). The rose-tinted glasses of yore are oft held tightly when one feels dissatisfied with things in life and the real world. Easier to say things were better when one was a child than to admit it just seemed better looking back.

I'm just glad I realized there were problems and that I wanted more out of my dubs than I got in that Z-era of FUNimation...well, that and FUNimation actually fixing their problems with Kai (keeping the voices I like, replacing some that needed to be replaced, better scripting and voice direction, and the actors overall improving).

[Super Sonic]

Some folks also hold onto old grudges that aren't researched or don't want to change their mind over. Seen folks online who said they'd never forgive Nelvana for "Cardcaptors" even though that was more network executive meddling as they had less stuff done in that show in Europe from what I heard, as well as all the other good shows they did, and successes after that.

[Ringworm128]

I'd chalk it up to people just not usually paying attention to/caring about minor details. If a fan sees the term "Ocean dub" they'd probably just assume everything done for that dub is by Ocean. It's not even exclusive to DB, a lot of people do this; a good example would be a mom telling her kid to "turn of that stupid Mario game." Even if said kid was playing Zelda.

[Super Sonic]

I'd chalk it up to people just not usually paying attention to/caring about minor details. If a fan sees the term "Ocean dub" they'd probably just assume everything done for that dub is by Ocean. It's not even exclusive to DB, a lot of people do this; a good example would be a mom telling her kid to "turn of that stupid Mario game." Even if said kid was playing Zelda.

Oh yeah.

Seriously, that does happen.

[TheWhiz]

It should also be worth noting that not everyone who calls it the "Ocean Dub" thinks that means that Ocean were 100% responsible for the product.

Just calling it the "Ocean Dub" is a lot easier than saying every time "The Early FUNimation dub that they subcontracted to Ocean".

So sometimes people may be airing their anger and venting but in am ore general way directed at the "Ocean Dub" and that comes out to a lot of complaining about Ocean.

I sometimes refer to it as the" Saban" dub when bringing up that dub in conversation. Fortunately, most people understand almost immediately what dub I'm referring to, but you're right that calling it the "Ocean Dub" is much easier.

[90sDBZ]

It should also be worth noting that not everyone who calls it the "Ocean Dub" thinks that means that Ocean were 100% responsible for the product.

Just calling it the "Ocean Dub" is a lot easier than saying every time "The Early FUNimation dub that they subcontracted to Ocean".

So sometimes people may be airing their anger and venting but in am ore general way directed at the "Ocean Dub" and that comes out to a lot of complaining about Ocean.

I sometimes refer to it as the" Saban" dub when bringing up that dub in conversation. Fortunately, most people understand almost immediately what dub I'm referring to, but you're right that calling it the "Ocean Dub" is much easier.

The problem with just calling it the "Ocean Dub" is that you could be referring to either the Saban dub or Westwood dub, which are as different as night and day when it comes to quality and general feeling.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Unfortunately, there really is no way to come up with a short phrase that completely and totally captures the facts of who was behind what dub.

The term "Ocean dub" is, after all, not really an actual term. It's a fan-created term created by people who were in the know, but has since come to be misunderstood by a decent amount of people as meaning that FUNimation was not involved. I've also heard the phrase "alternative English dub" thrown around, but even that's open for misinterpretation because it could be referring to "the Speedy dub" (yet another fan-create term used to refer to the weird English dub that was recorded in Malaysia). Or, while we're on the subject, how about the term, "the Big Green dub"? That is by no means an official term, since no person or company named "Big Green" was involved there...that is, once again, a fan-created term by people who were in the know.

For this reason, I've never particularly cared for the terms "Kai 1.0," and "Kai 2.0" when referring to the first 99 episodes of Kai and the Buu arc, respectively. I also found the use of the ".0" part to be rather odd. It's not like there's a "Kai 1.52" somewhere out there, you know? I don't look down upon people who use it, of course, but I don't use it myself because I feel like those terms have the possibility to cause even more confusion among fans who aren't in the know.

I understand the dilemma, though. The only accurate way to label "the Ocean dub" would be to say something like, "The initial English dub of DBZ produced by FUNimation in which the first 68 episodes were condensed into 54 episodes, and the localization duties as it relates to writing, directing, and voice acting were outsourced to creative talent in Vancouver, Canada, recorded primarily in Ocean Studios." That is, of course, way too long-winded to say in casual conversation. So we use fan-created terms, which is fine for people who know what they mean, but an unintended consequence is that it creates misconceptions for those who don't fully know what they mean. Not that fans who don't know should be blamed, of course. After all, there are no rules stating that somebody has to be familiar with every facet of the production of DBZ's English dub.

[Sayo-chan]

It should also be worth noting that not everyone who calls it the "Ocean Dub" thinks that means that Ocean were 100% responsible for the product.

Just calling it the "Ocean Dub" is a lot easier than saying every time "The Early FUNimation dub that they subcontracted to Ocean".

So sometimes people may be airing their anger and venting but in am ore general way directed at the "Ocean Dub" and that comes out to a lot of complaining about Ocean.

To be fair, if they're insulting Ocean but then praising early FUNimation, then it is 100% of those people that're ignorant about it.