Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

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Re: Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

Post by ZeroNeonix » Mon May 06, 2024 7:22 pm

tonysoprano300 wrote: Mon May 06, 2024 6:15 pm I think Super offers the superficial stuff that a lot of fans beg for whereas GT did not, Super has endless amounts of transformations, fight scenes, fan fiction concepts and power ups where as GT was heavily criticized for not giving us enough of those things.

People wanted to see Vegeta fuck shit up, not the GT version who continues along the path that was set up at the end of the Buu arc where he accepts Goku is better than him and makes peace with it. Look at any fan manga out there and you’ll always see the intense obsession with the surface level DB iconography jump off the page and truth be told that stuff really sells.

Not that I'm even upset about it, I like watching great action scenes as much as the next guy. I also like good stories though.

Now that Daima looks to be somewhat different from the norm of DB, its seemingly only served to piss people off
I agree when it comes to Super, it is very superficial, and it's dragged down by fan service. I can appreciate some of the ideas GT has to offer, but I wouldn't say they executed those ideas well. They tried to reset the power scale, but they didn't commit to it, so it just becomes confusing because it's all over the place. Both Goku and Trunks can go Super Saiyan, but they use the transformation sparingly for some reason. Rildo is stated to be more powerful than Buu, which is both laughably ridiculous and completely defeats the purpose of resetting the power scale in the first place.

The stories are boring and don't seem to have a point. People here seem to like crapping on TFS, but they've been doing a pretty good review of GT recently. For example, there's one episode where Goku and Trunks are discussing bringing Pan back to Earth and switching her out for Goten, because they feel like she isn't cut out for these dangerous adventures. She overhears them, because there aren't any doors on the ship, and she proves their point by running away on a dessert planet. TFS pointed out that in a show that was written well, Pan would demonstrate why she is an essential part of the team, but all she does is almost get herself killed. Yet they still try to force this idea that they need her anyway. It just doesn't work. Then when imitating original Dragon Ball didn't work, they shifted into becoming more like Z.

When it comes to Daima, I'm actually fairly optimistic. While this GT 2.0 thing is definitely not where I'd take the series, knowing that Toriyama is heavily involved tells me it will be fun, at least. I expect it will be on par with the Super movies. Maybe not with the best plot in the world, but with good humor and charm, as well as some high quality animation. Maybe the Supreme Kai will be made into an actually interesting character too, since he's got such an important role in the story.

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Re: Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

Post by M16U3L2015 » Mon May 06, 2024 8:17 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Mon May 06, 2024 3:29 pm I would imagine it would stream on Crunchyroll but it would be way more beneficial to stream on Disney+ or Hulu or Netflix

Although fuck Netflix.
The least beneficial thing would be to give it to Disney Plus or Hulu, they hardly promote the animes they acquire and then are forgotten. The best thing would be if they gave it to several streaming services, as happened with the Zom 100 or DanDaDan anime that was licensed to Netflix and Crunchyroll.

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Re: Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

Post by AliTheZombie13 » Tue May 07, 2024 1:21 am

ZeroNeonix wrote: Mon May 06, 2024 7:22 pm People here seem to like crapping on TFS, but they've been doing a pretty good review of GT recently. For example, there's one episode where Goku and Trunks are discussing bringing Pan back to Earth and switching her out for Goten, because they feel like she isn't cut out for these dangerous adventures. She overhears them, because there aren't any doors on the ship, and she proves their point by running away on a dessert planet. TFS pointed out that in a show that was written well, Pan would demonstrate why she is an essential part of the team, but all she does is almost get herself killed. Yet they still try to force this idea that they need her anyway. It just doesn't work. Then when imitating original Dragon Ball didn't work, they shifted into becoming more like Z.
Completely unrelated to the GT vs Super vs anything really debate, but two cents here: I saw their reviews and, quite frankly, I feel they're too negative just for the sake of being negative most of the time, and rarely praise anything good the show has to offer other than the fight scenes.

Honestly, a much more balanced review of GT would be MistareFusion's. He too thinks the show is a piece of crap, but he at least has the decency to highlight its good parts and compliment the show on what it does right.

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Re: Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

Post by JulieYBM » Tue May 07, 2024 1:29 am

The Pan hate in GT has always struck me as so exaggerated. I think there's a type of fan is obsessed with characters making logical and efficient decisions to end the game story as quickly as possible and that type or fan usually clings to rules and 'hard facts' to advance this, and characters like Pan (well, female characters in general, in my experience), tend to be treated poorly for being much more vibes-based.

Like, it's Pan. She's the youngest and most inexperienced character, so she has the most room to grow. Let her make mistakes! Let her learn from them! That is good writing! Unfortunately, I think hat GT fails this, and a lot o, uh, fans unkind to female characters in general use that as ammo to hate all female characters in stories.

Gokuu is the most boring part of GT because he's too static from the onset, and what little development he gets is not as broadly felt in the story.
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Re: Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

Post by AliTheZombie13 » Tue May 07, 2024 1:44 am

JulieYBM wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 1:29 am The Pan hate in GT has always struck me as so exaggerated. I think there's a type of fan is obsessed with characters making logical and efficient decisions to end the game story as quickly as possible and that type or fan usually clings to rules and 'hard facts' to advance this, and characters like Pan (well, female characters in general, in my experience), tend to be treated poorly for being much more vibes-based.

Like, it's Pan. She's the youngest and most inexperienced character, so she has the most room to grow. Let her make mistakes! Let her learn from them! That is good writing! Unfortunately, I think hat GT fails this, and a lot o, uh, fans unkind to female characters in general use that as ammo to hate all female characters in stories.
Eyup. I genuinely cannot understand how someone can hate Pan with so much passion, and yet give the likes of Vegeta a free pass. Not to say that GT's execution of Pan's development was anything to hit home about, but I did enjoy seeing her grow from grandpa-hating robot abuser to idolizing her grandpa and robot best friend.

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Re: Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

Post by JulieYBM » Tue May 07, 2024 10:06 am

AliTheZombie13 wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 1:44 am
JulieYBM wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 1:29 am The Pan hate in GT has always struck me as so exaggerated. I think there's a type of fan is obsessed with characters making logical and efficient decisions to end the game story as quickly as possible and that type or fan usually clings to rules and 'hard facts' to advance this, and characters like Pan (well, female characters in general, in my experience), tend to be treated poorly for being much more vibes-based.

Like, it's Pan. She's the youngest and most inexperienced character, so she has the most room to grow. Let her make mistakes! Let her learn from them! That is good writing! Unfortunately, I think hat GT fails this, and a lot o, uh, fans unkind to female characters in general use that as ammo to hate all female characters in stories.
Eyup. I genuinely cannot understand how someone can hate Pan with so much passion, and yet give the likes of Vegeta a free pass. Not to say that GT's execution of Pan's development was anything to hit home about, but I did enjoy seeing her grow from grandpa-hating robot abuser to idolizing her grandpa and robot best friend.
I say it all the time, but I think the issue is just plain ol' misogyny. Vegeta? "Men doing manly things is normal and good!" Pan? "Girls and Women are BAD when I can't control them and use them as a sex doll!"
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Re: Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

Post by VegettoEX » Tue May 07, 2024 10:07 am

Final reminder: this is a thread about Dragon Ball Daima. If you wish to discuss other topics related to Dragon Ball, you are MORE than encouraged to do so... but in a different, more-appropriate thread (either an existing one, or a new one of your own creation)!

Off-topic posts will be removed going forward.
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Re: Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

Post by ZeroNeonix » Tue May 07, 2024 12:20 pm

To circle things back to Daima, one of my concerns is that the show will have a similar character problem to GT. Goku doing all the heavy lifting, and Shin just sort of being there to dump exposition and gawk at how powerful the villain is and how amazing Goku is. As people joking called it, "Goku Time." I feel like they should have had at least one more person travel with Goku for the sake of variety.

To explain what I mean about the "character problem," I think most of GT's problems were set in stone from episode 1. Uub should have served the role of straight man instead of Trunks. They set up Goku training him as his successor, but he's barely in the show. They had Pan, but people find her annoying for a reason. She didn't do much of anything of note. I wanted to see her become the first female Super Saiyan, but they weren't creative enough to figure out how to design her hair. Pilaf shows up to wish Goku young again, which was funny, but they should have dragged him along to fix the mess he made. Can't rule the Earth if it blows up, right? Doesn't Goku, Uub, Pilaf, and a useful Pan sound like a way more engaging cast to work with?

And now we have a show with obvious parallels to GT, and their main cast is Goku and Shin of all characters, and no one else? I know we still aren't sure what time period this takes place in, but I feel like Super's version of Pan is already more interesting than GT's, although bringing her along might invite even more comparisons to GT. Maybe they could have brought Piccolo along? I dunno. Just seems strange.

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Re: Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

Post by AliTheZombie13 » Tue May 07, 2024 12:26 pm

Right, the initial setup of Shin/Kibito/Goku doesn't impress me.
I hope the "Universal Travel" bit is short, or that other characters eventually join them.
The Red Ribbon Army had a similar problem, where it was just Goku going places and single-handedly beating the problem up without effort.

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Re: Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

Post by ZeroNeonix » Tue May 07, 2024 12:42 pm

I forgot about Kibito. He's not exactly interesting enough to carry the show either. lol

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Re: Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

Post by kemuri07 » Tue May 07, 2024 9:33 pm

AliTheZombie13 wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 12:26 pm Right, the initial setup of Shin/Kibito/Goku doesn't impress me.
I hope the "Universal Travel" bit is short, or that other characters eventually join them.
The Red Ribbon Army had a similar problem, where it was just Goku going places and single-handedly beating the problem up without effort.
eeeh. Come on. I think you're doing the Red Ribbon Army saga a massive disservice by summing it up like that.

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Re: Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue May 07, 2024 10:55 pm

kemuri07 wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 9:33 pm
AliTheZombie13 wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 12:26 pm Right, the initial setup of Shin/Kibito/Goku doesn't impress me.
I hope the "Universal Travel" bit is short, or that other characters eventually join them.
The Red Ribbon Army had a similar problem, where it was just Goku going places and single-handedly beating the problem up without effort.
eeeh. Come on. I think you're doing the Red Ribbon Army saga a massive disservice by summing it up like that.
I have to second this. Much of the Red Ribbon Army arc was written when Dragon Ball was still mostly a gag manga and most of the entertainment came from Goku clowning on these guys. Oh Colonel Silver is cool and suave? Goku takes him out with one punch to the gut. Murasaki is a deadly ninja assassin? Goku turns him into the Elmer Fudd to his Bugs Bunny. Even the General Blue portion was more about Goku going on a treasure hunt with his two best friends (who are also kind of liablities, especially Bulma) and then interacting with the characters from Toriyama's previous manga. Tao Pai Pai's near victory hit harder because up to that point Goku was breezing through his opponents and until Tao the story never asked you to take the Red Ribbon Army seriously but to go on this adventure with Goku to find his grandpa's 4 Star ball.

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Re: Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

Post by AliTheZombie13 » Wed May 08, 2024 3:56 am

Like, I don't dislike the Red Ribbon Army arc, but the entire joke of "Oh no, looks like Goku was finally defeated- Ha ha, just kidding, Goku is really invincible! Isn't Goku so amazing, kids? :D" is extremely overdone in Red Ribbon and wears itself off very fast. When GT started repeating it, I hated it. I hope Daima doesn't make the same mistake.

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Re: Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

Post by kemuri07 » Wed May 08, 2024 11:38 am

I see what you're saying about Daima. It's why I'm hoping for lower stakes here. As in Vegeta and Goku can't just Super Saiyan Blue themselves ( :wink: ) out of a any situation. Which would force the show to get creative in how the team actually solves the problems, while also focusing more on character dynamics than power levels.

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Re: Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

Post by Koitsukai » Wed May 08, 2024 11:49 am

I'm actually looking forward for some Toriyama-penned adventures. The RRA arc was fantastic in terms of adventure, GT was also ok, wasn't that good, but I greatly enjoyed the planet-hopping thing. Namek was kind of an adventure, but not like the other two, so I'm all for something reminiscent of those type of journeys.

However, I think there will be some serious stuff by the end of it, to cater to the audience that watches DB just for that, which happens to be the majority of the fandom.

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Re: Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

Post by sangofe » Wed May 08, 2024 12:59 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 11:49 am However, I think there will be some serious stuff by the end of it, to cater to the audience that watches DB just for that, which happens to be the majority of the fandom.
Has there been surveys about this, or are you voicing your impressions as facts?

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Re: Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Wed May 08, 2024 2:48 pm

Will Daima have its own section on Kanzenshuu once it airs?
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Re: Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

Post by tonysoprano300 » Thu May 09, 2024 3:58 am

ZeroNeonix wrote: Mon May 06, 2024 7:22 pm
tonysoprano300 wrote: Mon May 06, 2024 6:15 pm I think Super offers the superficial stuff that a lot of fans beg for whereas GT did not, Super has endless amounts of transformations, fight scenes, fan fiction concepts and power ups where as GT was heavily criticized for not giving us enough of those things.

People wanted to see Vegeta fuck shit up, not the GT version who continues along the path that was set up at the end of the Buu arc where he accepts Goku is better than him and makes peace with it. Look at any fan manga out there and you’ll always see the intense obsession with the surface level DB iconography jump off the page and truth be told that stuff really sells.

Not that I'm even upset about it, I like watching great action scenes as much as the next guy. I also like good stories though.

Now that Daima looks to be somewhat different from the norm of DB, its seemingly only served to piss people off
I agree when it comes to Super, it is very superficial, and it's dragged down by fan service. I can appreciate some of the ideas GT has to offer, but I wouldn't say they executed those ideas well. They tried to reset the power scale, but they didn't commit to it, so it just becomes confusing because it's all over the place. Both Goku and Trunks can go Super Saiyan, but they use the transformation sparingly for some reason. Rildo is stated to be more powerful than Buu, which is both laughably ridiculous and completely defeats the purpose of resetting the power scale in the first place.

The stories are boring and don't seem to have a point. People here seem to like crapping on TFS, but they've been doing a pretty good review of GT recently. For example, there's one episode where Goku and Trunks are discussing bringing Pan back to Earth and switching her out for Goten, because they feel like she isn't cut out for these dangerous adventures. She overhears them, because there aren't any doors on the ship, and she proves their point by running away on a dessert planet. TFS pointed out that in a show that was written well, Pan would demonstrate why she is an essential part of the team, but all she does is almost get herself killed. Yet they still try to force this idea that they need her anyway. It just doesn't work. Then when imitating original Dragon Ball didn't work, they shifted into becoming more like Z.

When it comes to Daima, I'm actually fairly optimistic. While this GT 2.0 thing is definitely not where I'd take the series, knowing that Toriyama is heavily involved tells me it will be fun, at least. I expect it will be on par with the Super movies. Maybe not with the best plot in the world, but with good humor and charm, as well as some high quality animation. Maybe the Supreme Kai will be made into an actually interesting character too, since he's got such an important role in the story.
I would agree for the most part, if Daima can give a legitimately fun adventure story where Goku overcomes hurdles in ways that are more creative than powering up then thats a good start.

I mean idk, maybe it will suck but I'm just so ready to see something from the formula that has dictated DB for so long now that I can’t help but be actually intrigued. I'm hoping it does well though, if nothing else to show Toei that the series can be more than transformations and power ups.


To build off the Red Ribbon Army arc conversation, I think what made that arc so fantastic to me is that it was just an excellent story for Goku where he makes peace with his grandpa’s death. You can certainly criticize it in a number of different ways but the fact that it was a legit character driven story in DB that developed Goku is why it was so good. I'm not sure I expect Daima to do anything special in that regard but I can hope

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Re: Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

Post by Majin Buu » Thu May 09, 2024 9:21 am

tonysoprano300 wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 3:58 am To build off the Red Ribbon Army arc conversation, I think what made that arc so fantastic to me is that it was just an excellent story for Goku where he makes peace with his grandpa’s death. You can certainly criticize it in a number of different ways but the fact that it was a legit character driven story in DB that developed Goku is why it was so good. I'm not sure I expect Daima to do anything special in that regard but I can hope
Grandpa Gohan being in Daima would be refreshingly out of left field.

Plus it would be nice to see modern Dragon Ball unequivocally acknowledge him as Goku's father figure since it feels like over time he's been low-key deemphasized in the role in favor of Bardock (especially with the shenanigans going on in the Super manga).

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Re: Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu May 09, 2024 9:57 am

Majin Buu wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 9:21 am
tonysoprano300 wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 3:58 am To build off the Red Ribbon Army arc conversation, I think what made that arc so fantastic to me is that it was just an excellent story for Goku where he makes peace with his grandpa’s death. You can certainly criticize it in a number of different ways but the fact that it was a legit character driven story in DB that developed Goku is why it was so good. I'm not sure I expect Daima to do anything special in that regard but I can hope
Grandpa Gohan being in Daima would be refreshingly out of left field.

Plus it would be nice to see modern Dragon Ball unequivocally acknowledge him as Goku's father figure since it feels like over time he's been low-key deemphasized in the role in favor of Bardock (especially with the shenanigans going on in the Super manga).
This. It's exhausting seeing modern material push Bardock (and to a lesser extent Gine) as being the reason Goku is he is in place of Grandpa Gohan

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