Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

[super michael]

It seems like back in the day that Toei went out of their way at times to interpret and write Goku in the anime as effectively a superhero, even to the point of such things as healing a bird with his own power in one scene during one of the movies. I heard that it was apparently due to them not exactly taking to Toriyama's vision of his character and thus making changes writing wise in that respect. Funny enough that years later FUNimation with their dub went one step further and cranked that up to 11 hence such infamous dialogue as "Ally to good, nightmare to you" and the rewrite to the scene of him sparing Vegeta among others.

Though yeah, even Toriyama's own interpretation of Goku in the original manga isn't anywhere close to what Super (particularly the anime) depicts him as.

Goku helped the turtle reach the sea and even rescues him from the bandit. If someone ask Goku for help, then Goku helps them.
The one who was against helping the turtle was Bulma.
Lets not forget Goku got a reward due to his selfless act.

Daima Goku can keep every growth, skills and maturity from DB/DBZ and ignore DBS.

[Zephyr]

Nobody's arguing that Goku needs to be a superhero, he can be just a guy who's out there to fight strong people who ends up saving the world by pure accident. The problem in my humble opinion is that Goku's a bad written one, often veering into pure unlikable territory after Toriyama's decided he's an alien from a bloodthirsty race.

I can name countless characters who have been portrayed in media as assholes, but not superheros, who do end up doing good things in the end, characters that I fell in love with and loved watching their journey. Goku is not one of them, and after Super, definitely not. He has too many negative qualities and barely any positives.

Well, I think when people are upset that Goku is not being more practical at X, Y, or Z moment in a story (causing him to be unlikable for many, yourself included), there's a clear complaint of "he could be doing this otherwise more practical thing to save the day/end the conflict". Even if people go "well I'm not saying he needs to be a superhero....", they're sure coming from a place of wishing he looked at his own abilities more in the way Peter Parker might: with great power comes great responsibility.

Either way, fair enough. I think he's a pretty well-written and likeable one myself, but that's also within the confines of the sort of work Dragon Ball is: a Dr. Slump styled pastiche and parody of (and love letter to) the wider world of kung fu media and tropes. Goku's outlandish behavior is in-line with Toriyama's irreverent style of humor that is baked into the workings of the Dragon World itself. And he's a charmingly goofy guy throughout it, which is also helped a ton by Nozawa's performance. Through the combination of Toriyama's writing and Nozawa's delivery, Goku comes across as kind of a dick, a smarmy little asshole, and I can't help but love him for it.

Super exaggerated some aspects of his personality, but from my perspective they exaggerated some of the most important ones, which gun to my head I definitely prefer over downplaying them. That the exaggeration was partly done in service of funnies also scores points for me, given that Dragon Ball is supposed to be a funny work.

[super michael]

Nobody's arguing that Goku needs to be a superhero, he can be just a guy who's out there to fight strong people who ends up saving the world by pure accident. The problem in my humble opinion is that Goku's a bad written one, often veering into pure unlikable territory after Toriyama's decided he's an alien from a bloodthirsty race.

I can name countless characters who have been portrayed in media as assholes, but not superheros, who do end up doing good things in the end, characters that I fell in love with and loved watching their journey. Goku is not one of them, and after Super, definitely not. He has too many negative qualities and barely any positives.

Well, I think when people are upset that Goku is not being more practical at X, Y, or Z moment in a story (causing him to be unlikable for many, yourself included), there's a clear complaint of "he could be doing this otherwise more practical thing to save the day/end the conflict". Even if people go "well I'm not saying he needs to be a superhero....", they're sure coming from a place of wishing he looked at his own abilities more in the way Peter Parker might: with great power comes great responsibility.

Either way, fair enough. I think he's a pretty well-written and likeable one myself, but that's also within the confines of the sort of work Dragon Ball is: a Dr. Slump styled pastiche and parody of (and love letter to) the wider world of kung fu media and tropes. Goku's outlandish behavior is in-line with Toriyama's irreverent style of humor that is baked into the workings of the Dragon World itself. And he's a charmingly goofy guy throughout it, which is also helped a ton by Nozawa's performance. Through the combination of Toriyama's writing and Nozawa's delivery, Goku comes across as kind of a dick, a smarmy little asshole, and I can't help but love him for it.

Super exaggerated some aspects of his personality, but from my perspective they exaggerated some of the most important ones, which gun to my head I definitely prefer over downplaying them. That the exaggeration was partly done in service of funnies also scores points for me, given that Dragon Ball is supposed to be a funny work.

Doing dumb things isn't a bad thing, but doing it too much is really bad, especially when an entire episode is about Goku being dumb.
When Goku doesn't know the things that he used to know, then that is really bad. Goku gained common sense and knowledge as time progressed.

Goku thinking Kuririn shouting Taiyoken = Monaka transforming is bad. Goku not realizing Chiaotzu was using magic on him was dumb. The whole episode was Goku being clueless and dumb.

DBS Super Hero Goku doesn't know anything about meditation or why it is useful. He doesn't know about using his powers effectively, even though he did it on Namek.


Those are the things I hope Dragon Ball Daima avoids. We want Goku that knows how to train, learns as he goes and sometime might do dumb things due to not knowing some new things. However they shouldn't go overboard with Goku being dumb.
We shouldn't have to think, "again Goku does something dumb", "again Goku says something dumb", "when will Goku stop being stupid", "Goku knows those things in the past, he doesn't be this stupid", etc.

In Daima looks like he is going into space, that can use this opportunity to be clueless on things he has no experience. Surely alien will do things differently than on earth. However without going overboard.

Here is an example of Goku doing dumb things but the right way. Goku shake a alien "hand", but that isn't his hand that he is shaking. It is normal for Goku not to know a alien body part.
Goku not knowing that some alien don't wear pants an example.

[AliTheZombie13]

Well, I think when people are upset that Goku is not being more practical at X, Y, or Z moment in a story (causing him to be unlikable for many, yourself included), there's a clear complaint of "he could be doing this otherwise more practical thing to save the day/end the conflict". Even if people go "well I'm not saying he needs to be a superhero....", they're sure coming from a place of wishing he looked at his own abilities more in the way Peter Parker might: with great power comes great responsibility.

The entire cast of Yu Yu Hakusho, Ranma 1/2, Cobra Kai, Evil Dead, Invincible, heck, even Sailor Moon could be considered characters who are parodies of superheroes and kung-fu movies, who don't want to be superheroes, but who do end up doing good things as a result of their own selfish desires.

When Sailor Moon says, "I don't want to be a superhero, I just want to be a normal girl" and sees herself forced to go back into being a superhero out of necessity to protect her loved ones, I can relate to that and I can root for her.

When Goku says, "But I don't care about entire universes being doomed to non-existence, because fighting makes me excited!" All my willingness to watch the story and root for him flies out the window, rendering every single moment afterwards where he "cares" hypocritical and unsympathetic. If Goku had an ounce of development, some kind of realization, "Oh... The things I'm doing are harming my loved ones... I need to fight against this poison inside of me..." In fact, he did have shades of that at the end of Cell.

But now, he's little more than a Japanese Homer Simpson, and I'm not sure I'm willing to watch 30 seasons of that.

[Rafa Fast]

Anyone else saw the textbox line around the logo in the most recent promo art featuring Shenlong from Super Hero ?
Man, bad marketing is one thing, but this was just dirty, it's Toriyama's final work for the franchise and that's how they're advertising it, really hope they're making a secret on purpose.

[SupremeKai25]

"But I don't care about entire universes being doomed to non-existence, because fighting makes me excited!"

When did he say that?

In fact, he said the exact opposite to Android 17. Telling him that he has to fight because he can't bear watching innocents get erased.

"Oh... The things I'm doing are harming my loved ones... I need to fight against this poison inside of me..." In fact, he did have shades of that at the end of Cell.

This is such an edgy thing to say, so I'm not surprised that he had shades of this in the Cell saga, the most edgy and cringe saga of Dragon Ball, a saga that does not even feel like Dragon Ball.

At its core, Dragon Ball is a light-hearted and fun story about martial arts and adventure, that edgy and sanctimonious nonsense belongs in Naruto.

[tonysoprano300]

I feel like Goku should have felt angry with himself for some of the errors that he made, like if Trunks universe gets wiped out because Goku forgot the seal to the Mafuba then I would expect at least a scene where to shows remorse for making such a stupid mistake.

[super michael]

I feel like Goku should have felt angry with himself for some of the errors that he made, like if Trunks universe gets wiped out because Goku forgot the seal to the Mafuba then I would expect at least a scene where to shows remorse for making such a stupid mistake.

Goku forgetting the talisman wasn't the only mistake, he forgot the urn and even the senzu beans. He even said something stupid such as eating many senzu beans = immortality.
Goku should have felt bad he had to use Zeno, which caused the whole time line to get erased, for all his dumb mistakes. His mistake made it impossible to beat Zamasu.

Those are things I don't want to see in Dragon Ball Daima, I don't want Goku to be as dumb as his DBS version.

Goku and friends focusing on adventure will be fun. Having funny and gag moment, they are fun also but if done right. Fighting and training those are fun also.

[Zephyr]

Sorry for the late reply, been busy.

The entire cast of Yu Yu Hakusho, Ranma 1/2, Cobra Kai, Evil Dead, Invincible, heck, even Sailor Moon could be considered characters who are parodies of superheroes and kung-fu movies, who don't want to be superheroes, but who do end up doing good things as a result of their own selfish desires.

When Sailor Moon says, "I don't want to be a superhero, I just want to be a normal girl" and sees herself forced to go back into being a superhero out of necessity to protect her loved ones, I can relate to that and I can root for her.

When Goku says, "But I don't care about entire universes being doomed to non-existence, because fighting makes me excited!" All my willingness to watch the story and root for him flies out the window, rendering every single moment afterwards where he "cares" hypocritical and unsympathetic. If Goku had an ounce of development, some kind of realization, "Oh... The things I'm doing are harming my loved ones... I need to fight against this poison inside of me..." In fact, he did have shades of that at the end of Cell.

But now, he's little more than a Japanese Homer Simpson, and I'm not sure I'm willing to watch 30 seasons of that.

I mean, I did specify Dr. Slump styled pastiche and parody. Goku being flippant and unflappable about insanely high stakes is 100% on point and at home for something in Toriyama's typical irreverent gag manga type world. There's also the "nah, I'd win" element to it every time. He isn't simply not caring that bad things will happen, he's extremely confident that he'll either be able to prevent or reverse them. And, to his credit, it's not like he hasn't earned the right to be pretty confident in his own abilities. Fighting is his craft, and his general thrust throughout the story is that he is more driven than anyone else to be the best, and ends up leaving every rival behind eventually because of it.

To be clear, this isn't to say we should all emulate that and be super cocky when the stakes are high. But it tracks as something a martial artist who always rises to the top would think, and when filtered through that Dr. Slump styled lens it's definitely funny to me. That said, you mention Yu Yu Hakusho as a counterexample, but Yusuke has a very "Goku" moment when fighting Sensui that you probably don't like (or won't like when you get there, if you haven't).

This is partly why I agreed with what you said earlier about enjoying things for what they are rather than what you want them to be, and why a lot of peoples' craving for Dragon Ball to be something it's not often has me roll my eyes and wonder why the countless other works out there aren't simply being sought instead. I can certainly imagine an alternative sort of take on Dragon Ball where Goku's thrill for combat causes some great harm which in turn causes him a great amount of introspection, change, and development. This would put him along a similar arc as Guts from Berserk, or Thorfinn from Vinland Saga. They do the cool and badass violent stuff for sizable portions of their respective stories, but eventually they learn they've been mistaken in pursuing that so fully (if at all), and begin to seek amends and a better path forward. It makes for really compelling character development and writing. I highly recommend them both if Goku leaves you wanting in this regard.

But that's not what Dragon Ball is, that's not what it's ever going to be, and that's not something it ever could have been. Toriyama had a different set of writing skills. Compelling character drama is not his strength, it's not his craft. I think he pulls some off here and there, and there's a pretty long stretch of the original story where he's clearly aiming to present some. That he pulled off character drama to the extene that he did, despite everything, is frankly impressive to me. But like with his chops for romance writing, I can't honestly super begrudge him that he didn't write something I would love as much as Berserk or Vinland Saga, for the same reasons that I love those. He and his work are in a different lane. That doesn't exempt he or his work from criticism, but I think the criticism needs to be appropriately centered and aimed. And I feel like it too often isn't.

[tonysoprano300]

Sorry for the late reply, been busy.

The entire cast of Yu Yu Hakusho, Ranma 1/2, Cobra Kai, Evil Dead, Invincible, heck, even Sailor Moon could be considered characters who are parodies of superheroes and kung-fu movies, who don't want to be superheroes, but who do end up doing good things as a result of their own selfish desires.

When Sailor Moon says, "I don't want to be a superhero, I just want to be a normal girl" and sees herself forced to go back into being a superhero out of necessity to protect her loved ones, I can relate to that and I can root for her.

When Goku says, "But I don't care about entire universes being doomed to non-existence, because fighting makes me excited!" All my willingness to watch the story and root for him flies out the window, rendering every single moment afterwards where he "cares" hypocritical and unsympathetic. If Goku had an ounce of development, some kind of realization, "Oh... The things I'm doing are harming my loved ones... I need to fight against this poison inside of me..." In fact, he did have shades of that at the end of Cell.

But now, he's little more than a Japanese Homer Simpson, and I'm not sure I'm willing to watch 30 seasons of that.

I mean, I did specify Dr. Slump styled pastiche and parody. Goku being flippant and unflappable about insanely high stakes is 100% on point and at home for something in Toriyama's typical irreverent gag manga type world. There's also the "nah, I'd win" element to it every time. He isn't simply not caring that bad things will happen, he's extremely confident that he'll either be able to prevent or reverse them. And, to his credit, it's not like he hasn't earned the right to be pretty confident in his own abilities. Fighting is his craft, and his general thrust throughout the story is that he is more driven than anyone else to be the best, and ends up leaving every rival behind eventually because of it.

To be clear, this isn't to say we should all emulate that and be super cocky when the stakes are high. But it tracks as something a martial artist who always rises to the top would think, and when filtered through that Dr. Slump styled lens it's definitely funny to me. That said, you mention Yu Yu Hakusho as a counterexample, but Yusuke has a very "Goku" moment when fighting Sensui that you probably don't like (or won't like when you get there, if you haven't).

This is partly why I agreed with what you said earlier about enjoying things for what they are rather than what you want them to be, and why a lot of peoples' craving for Dragon Ball to be something it's not often has me roll my eyes and wonder why the countless other works out there aren't simply being sought instead. I can certainly imagine an alternative sort of take on Dragon Ball where Goku's thrill for combat causes some great harm which in turn causes him a great amount of introspection, change, and development. This would put him along a similar arc as Guts from Berserk, or Thorfinn from Vinland Saga. They do the cool and badass violent stuff for sizable portions of their respective stories, but eventually they learn they've been mistaken in pursuing that so fully (if at all), and begin to seek amends and a better path forward. It makes for really compelling character development and writing. I highly recommend them both if Goku leaves you wanting in this regard.

But that's not what Dragon Ball is, that's not what it's ever going to be, and that's not something it ever could have been. Toriyama had a different set of writing skills. Compelling character drama is not his strength, it's not his craft. I think he pulls some off here and there, and there's a pretty long stretch of the original story where he's clearly aiming to present some. That he pulled off character drama to the extene that he did, despite everything, is frankly impressive to me. But like with his chops for romance writing, I can't honestly super begrudge him that he didn't write something I would love as much as Berserk or Vinland Saga, for the same reasons that I love those. He and his work are in a different lane. That doesn't exempt he or his work from criticism, but I think the criticism needs to be appropriately centered and aimed. And I feel like it too often isn't.

I think the point of contention is that Goku was not characterized to such extremes for large portions of the series. Not necessarily that we want him to be mire akin to characters in other stories because we like them more.

[AliTheZombie13]

I think the point of contention is that Goku was not characterized to such extremes for large portions of the series. Not necessarily that we want him to be mire akin to characters in other stories because we like them more.

Mostly this. Goku can be a selfish, overconfident, static character who, while not exactly a hero, can do heroic things out of pure accident and a selfish desire to fight strong people. But such a character is hard to write, you need to strike a good balance, otherwise the audience may lose interest and root against him.

Goku in Super, to my recall, has like... TWO moments, tops, where I find sympathy for him. Once when he tries to reason Beerus out of destroying the Earth while in orbit, and the second when he gets appalled that Black killed Chichi and Goten. The entire rest of the anime, I found him despicable and worthy of a good Hakai'ng that never came, despite Beerus having every reason to do it.

Also, I did finish Yu Yu Hakusho, and yes, I didn't like Yusuke turning into Goku in the final third of the anime either.

[JulieYBM]

Toriyama was so big on trying to make Gokuu feel like 'not a traditional hero' or to highlight the 'poison' of his character, but he doesn't really do that in an interesting and/or entertaining fashion the further along he gets into the series. Grounding elements that make Gokuu be some semblance of a relatable human are necessary, and to remove those because of a desire to make Gokuu less 'heroic' are going to only make for a less interesting work.

Like, Toriyama can talk about wanting to create something that isn't too deep all he wants, but that shit isn't always going to cut it—especially when you aren't putting a ton of thought into how things play out, and what the character arcs are for all of the character affected by your writing decisions. Not allowing editorial or production in-put from other creators involved in these projects does, in fact, not help, either.

[super michael]

I think the point of contention is that Goku was not characterized to such extremes for large portions of the series. Not necessarily that we want him to be mire akin to characters in other stories because we like them more.

Mostly this. Goku can be a selfish, overconfident, static character who, while not exactly a hero, can do heroic things out of pure accident and a selfish desire to fight strong people. But such a character is hard to write, you need to strike a good balance, otherwise the audience may lose interest and root against him.

Goku in Super, to my recall, has like... TWO moments, tops, where I find sympathy for him. Once when he tries to reason Beerus out of destroying the Earth while in orbit, and the second when he gets appalled that Black killed Chichi and Goten. The entire rest of the anime, I found him despicable and worthy of a good Hakai'ng that never came, despite Beerus having every reason to do it.

Also, I did finish Yu Yu Hakusho, and yes, I didn't like Yusuke turning into Goku in the final third of the anime either.

Goku used to kill anyone, that is until he met Android 8. Android 8 taught Goku that killing isn't the right way to solve a problem. Then once Goku trained with Mr Popo and Kami, he stopped killing villains.
However Goku told Future Trunks that sometimes some villains needs to die.

Goku isn't 100% static. Lets not forget that when the turtle asked Goku to take him to the ocean, Goku accepted to help him. The one against helping the turtle was Bulma. So Goku helps anyone, even if no battle is involved.
When Goku see a innocent person getting attacked, then Goku saves that person.
Goku even went to Zeno, not thinking that Zeno might get angry and destroy the universe. He only cares about what he wanted.

What Goku doesn't do is patrol the earth or watch the news to stop every evil action, but even if he doesn't do that he is still a hero for all the things that he has done.

However in Super Goku supported Master Roshi evil deed and he even acted like a villain toward the other universe instead of apologizing. He forces others to fight him, which is why Zamasu steals Goku body in the first place.

[AliTheZombie13]

Goku used to kill anyone, that is until he met Android 8. Android 8 taught Goku that killing isn't the right way to solve a problem. Then once Goku trained with Mr Popo and Kami, he stopped killing villains.
However Goku told Future Trunks that sometimes some villains needs to die.

With Android 8, I never really got that. Didn't Android 8 end up killing G. White?
And then Goku went on killing the entire rest of the Red Ribbon Army by himself like it was no big issue.
I feel it was more the other way around, Goku taught Android 8 that sometimes fighting/killing is necessary.

As for the other villains, he spared Vegeta because the character was supposed to die at first, but became too popular with the fanbase and Toriyama decided to spare him, so he made up an excuse that Goku wanted to fight him again, not because of any moral issues.

A lot of Goku's actions are dictated by the plot.
I assure you that had Vegeta not become a popular character, Toriyama would have proceeded with his original idea of killing him and Goku wouldn't have shed a single tear.

[MasenkoHA]

I think the point of contention is that Goku was not characterized to such extremes for large portions of the series. Not necessarily that we want him to be mire akin to characters in other stories because we like them more.

Mostly this. Goku can be a selfish, overconfident, static character who, while not exactly a hero, can do heroic things out of pure accident and a selfish desire to fight strong people. But such a character is hard to write, you need to strike a good balance, otherwise the audience may lose interest and root against him.

Goku in Super, to my recall, has like... TWO moments, tops, where I find sympathy for him. Once when he tries to reason Beerus out of destroying the Earth while in orbit, and the second when he gets appalled that Black killed Chichi and Goten. The entire rest of the anime, I found him despicable and worthy of a good Hakai'ng that never came, despite Beerus having every reason to do it.

Also, I did finish Yu Yu Hakusho, and yes, I didn't like Yusuke turning into Goku in the final third of the anime either.

Goku used to kill anyone, that is until he met Android 8. Android 8 taught Goku that killing isn't the right way to solve a problem. Then once Goku trained with Mr Popo and Kami, he stopped killing villains.
However Goku told Future Trunks that sometimes some villains needs to die.

I don't think we saw Goku kill a single person outside animals before he met Hachan. Mostly because of the kind of story Dragon Ball was before that point. So Hachan is pretty irrelevant here.

After Goku trained with Popo and Kami he still killed Yakon and Majin Boo plus Freeza and Cold in Future Trunks timeline. And urged Gohan to kill Cell. He didn't adopt a "No Kill" policy he just started sparing foes for a rematch/because they weren't worth his time

[Majin Buu]

The idea that Goku adopted a non-killing policy at any point is fandom head canon that people use circumstantial evidence to support, evidence that doesn't hold up to scrutiny as Masenko pointed out.

Personally, I think "sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't" works just fine as an explanation. Goku tends to make decisions on a whim anyway so him being inconsistent on killing is in line with that aspect of his personality and makes more sense to me than "he learned to stop killing at some point we never see that's never referenced in the text at all".

[jjgp1112]

Goku's thing has always been, "Well if shit goes wrong, I'll just beat them up again." Most of Goku's recklessness isn't from apathy of the consequences, he's just sure he can handle those consequences, and that's been consistent since early DB. And again, why do people always leave out the fact that Goku didn't expect Zeno to put the universes at stake when he requested the tournament? And when that did happen, he took things seriously?

[jjgp1112]

Goku used to kill anyone, that is until he met Android 8. Android 8 taught Goku that killing isn't the right way to solve a problem. Then once Goku trained with Mr Popo and Kami, he stopped killing villains.
However Goku told Future Trunks that sometimes some villains needs to die.

Goku isn't 100% static. Lets not forget that when the turtle asked Goku to take him to the ocean, Goku accepted to help him. The one against helping the turtle was Bulma. So Goku helps anyone, even if no battle is involved.
When Goku see a innocent person getting attacked, then Goku saves that person.
Goku even went to Zeno, not thinking that Zeno might get angry and destroy the universe. He only cares about what he wanted.

What Goku doesn't do is patrol the earth or watch the news to stop every evil action, but even if he doesn't do that he is still a hero for all the things that he has done.

However in Super Goku supported Master Roshi evil deed and he even acted like a villain toward the other universe instead of apologizing. He forces others to fight him, which is why Zamasu steals Goku body in the first place.

Goku went on a whole rampage on the Red Ribbon Army shortly after his whole ordeal with Android 8. "Killing is wrong" wasn't at all Goku's takeaway from that, probably, "Bullying people and ordering them to do bad shit is wrong" but he already operated that way anyway.

And that whole, "Mr. Popo and Kami taught Goku the value of life blah blah blah" stuff is pure fandom hogwash that's actually contradicted by the story! Kami's whole reason for even coming to the tournament as Shen was because he didn't think Goku had that dawg in him to kill Piccolo. Now why in the hell would Kami teach Goku "Killing people is wrong!" while preparing him to fight a guy he 100% wants dead?

Goku doesn't like killing people who can't defend themselves anymore. It's pretty consistent with Nappa, Recoome, Burter, Jeice, and Frieza, but when push came to shove with Frieza he blew him away, literally urged Gohan to kill Cell when he had the chance because he might pull some fuckery, and of course killed Buu with no qualms but had him reincarnated so he could fight him again.

Goku was never a strict, "No killing!" guy, he just had certain principles and lines like a normal person.

[AliTheZombie13]

Goku's thing has always been, "Well if shit goes wrong, I'll just beat them up again." Most of Goku's recklessness isn't from apathy of the consequences, he's just sure he can handle those consequences, and that's been consistent since early DB. And again, why do people always leave out the fact that Goku didn't expect Zeno to put the universes at stake when he requested the tournament? And when that did happen, he took things seriously?

I didn't read the manga, but in the anime: Goku's been told in the Black arc about what Zeno can do, the consequences of upsetting him, how he erased 7(?) other universes for much less, and it seemed like he understood.

Before he reminded Zeno of the tournament, both Beerus and Whis reminded him of the above, warned him several times not to do it, outright threatened to kill him if he even attempted to do it, what was Goku's response? Put on his best cartoon villain impersonation and go, "Hmmm... What does this button do?"

But what about afterwards? Does Goku try to fix his massive fuck-up? Does he put any effort in saving his or the other universes? No. He doesn't try talking Zeno out of it, he doesn't formulate a plan to win the tournament and the Dragon Balls to restore the erased universes, he doesn't even take the tournament seriously, abandoning all sense of strategy, self-preservation and care for his loved ones the minute it starts to go fight Top.

When being asked point-blank what would he wish for if he won, he says... "Hm... I have no idea... How about I wish for that boat you wanted so much?" You could argue he was just playing dumb, having some kind of master plan to make #17 wish for the erased universes to come back if he won the tournament... No, he asks again after #17 makes the wish, "Restoring the erased universes?! But I thought you wanted a boat!"

Apparently, Goku thinks: A boat > Restoring erased universes.
That's beyond apathy, even more so if you consider Goku is at fault for this whole mess.

Now, I'm not against Goku fucking up if that means he has to deal with the consequences of his actions, but here's the thing: There are none. Goku never has to suffer any consequences for his actions. Nobody teaches him a lesson for what he did. He gets the happy-go-luck fight he craved for so much at the expense of everyone else's suffering. Actually, there was a consequence: He brought Freeza back, aka, Space Hitler. And the arc ends leaving it dead clear that, yes, Goku would do it all over again if given the chance.

Goku is unlikable as fuck in the Tournament of Power, I'm sorry.
I get that Toriyama doesn't want him to be a hero, but turning him into a borderline sociopath ain't the solution for that.

[MasenkoHA]

That's beyond apathy, even more so if you consider Goku is at fault for this whole mess.

I'm at a total and complete loss on why this take continues to persist amongst the fandom (is it because of the one joke in DBZ Abridged's Christmas parody of Eradicate Saiyans?)

Zeno was going to wipe out all universes with lower moral rankings ANYWAYS. The tournament suggestion gave Zeno the idea to give one of those universe a fighting chance to survive. If anything Goku's stupidity indirectly saved all those universes since 17's wish brought them all back. Something that wouldn't have happened if Goku didn't suggest a tournament.

Seriously y'all enough with the "Goku put the multiverse at risk with his lust for battle". It just flat out isn't true because, again Zeno was planning on wiping the lot of them out before that.