The Harmony Gold Dub & Broadcast Audio Discussion Thread

[Danfun64]

Wait...what's this about an audio tape?

Also, can somebody who speaks both Spanish and English look at Zero y el Dragon Magico ep 2-4 that were uploaded on the internet and compare the sript with the English Funi/BLT dub from 1995? we know for a fact that DB Movie 1 uses mostly the same script between the Harmony Gold dub, 1995 Funi/bLT dub, and 2010 Funi in-house dub. It would be nice to know if the same goes for the Tv series, especially as it appears that Movie 3 doesn't share the same script between the HG dub and the Funi in-house dub.

[DerekPadula]

Wait...what's this about an audio tape?

There's a tape sitting in the Harmony Gold vault with the label of "Dragon Ball" on it. Nobody at Harmony Gold knows what's on it, and unfortunately it's in a tape format that cannot be conventionally played. So the only way to get access to the actual tape material on the inside is to 'bake' the tape. Baking means you place it in a furnace, shatter its exterior shell, and gain access to the tape inside. Then you re-spool the tape material into a viable format and can either watch it or record the audio.

Tommy told me a few years ago that there's an audio-visual company they use in Los Angeles that can do this service for them, but they only do it in large batches along with other tapes. So we'd first have to pay the $500 or so for the service, and then wait for it to be done in the next batch. I've never had that kind of cash sitting around, so I haven't done it. But I can help facilitate it for whoever else wants to do it; or I think it would be great if we could do a fundraiser for it. But I don't know if that kind of thing is allowed here. So it's up to you guys if you want to know what's on the tape.

[linkdude20002001]

Well, a fundraiser is a good idea. I'm sure quite a few would throw 20, maybe 50 bucks toward the tape. If it turns out to be boring stuff, it wouldn't be all that much money lost for individual donators. It's worth a shot, and worth the money. So I sure do hope it's not against any rules.

[LordCrumb]

I'd put in for it too if done through a reliable fundraising site.

[sangofe]

Wait...what's this about an audio tape?

There's a tape sitting in the Harmony Gold vault with the label of "Dragon Ball" on it. Nobody at Harmony Gold knows what's on it, and unfortunately it's in a tape format that cannot be conventionally played. So the only way to get access to the actual tape material on the inside is to 'bake' the tape. Baking means you place it in a furnace, shatter its exterior shell, and gain access to the tape inside. Then you re-spool the tape material into a viable format and can either watch it or record the audio.

Tommy told me a few years ago that there's an audio-visual company they use in Los Angeles that can do this service for them, but they only do it in large batches along with other tapes. So we'd first have to pay the $500 or so for the service, and then wait for it to be done in the next batch. I've never had that kind of cash sitting around, so I haven't done it. But I can help facilitate it for whoever else wants to do it; or I think it would be great if we could do a fundraiser for it. But I don't know if that kind of thing is allowed here. So it's up to you guys if you want to know what's on the tape.

I would so laugh if it ends up being nothing special...

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I would be happy to contribute a small amount to a fundraiser, but just a small amount in case it comes to nothing. Hopefully enough people would be interested in possibly uncovering a lost piece of Dragon Ball history .

[VejituhTheWarriorGuy]

I'd be up for a GoFundMe if Tommy Yune is fine with it.

[gogeta97]

I'd gladly contribute to a fundraiser as well, but only if all the fans are given access to the audio. Of course I don't want to break any of the rules of this site, but the fans deserve access to this. No more hush-hush stuff.

[clutchins]

I'm down for this.

[superrayman3]

Wait...what's this about an audio tape?

There's a tape sitting in the Harmony Gold vault with the label of "Dragon Ball" on it. Nobody at Harmony Gold knows what's on it, and unfortunately it's in a tape format that cannot be conventionally played. So the only way to get access to the actual tape material on the inside is to 'bake' the tape. Baking means you place it in a furnace, shatter its exterior shell, and gain access to the tape inside. Then you re-spool the tape material into a viable format and can either watch it or record the audio.

Tommy told me a few years ago that there's an audio-visual company they use in Los Angeles that can do this service for them, but they only do it in large batches along with other tapes. So we'd first have to pay the $500 or so for the service, and then wait for it to be done in the next batch. I've never had that kind of cash sitting around, so I haven't done it. But I can help facilitate it for whoever else wants to do it; or I think it would be great if we could do a fundraiser for it. But I don't know if that kind of thing is allowed here. So it's up to you guys if you want to know what's on the tape.

Correct me if i'm wrong derek but wasn't the fund-raiser idea brought up back when the aforementioned tape was first discovered, and the idea didn't pan out because HG's lawyers didn't want to work with your small company or something to that extent? Don't get me wrong I'd donate in a heartbeat but unless something's changed since then I doubt a fundraiser would work out.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Assuming there are no legal complications with getting the tape baked, I'd be happy to donate a few bucks to a GoFundMe page (or something to that effect). I'm sure others would be too.

[DerekPadula]

Correct me if i'm wrong derek but wasn't the fund-raiser idea brought up back when the aforementioned tape was first discovered, and the idea didn't pan out because HG's lawyers didn't want to work with your small company or something to that extent? Don't get me wrong I'd donate in a heartbeat but unless something's changed since then I doubt a fundraiser would work out.

It was several years ago, so it's difficult to remember the details. To remedy that I dug into my archives, and boy have I done a lot of work on this that was never published. I planned on publishing the complete story in my upcoming book 'USA DBZ,' but I've been 'planning' to do that for over 4 years. Other projects have taken precedence. In any case, here are the parts that are relevant to this topic.

After many back and forth conversations, Tommy was able to track down a music reel for the Harmony Gold dub of Dragon Ball. He says, "Digitization costs by an audio lab will probably run somewhere between $100-250." He adds, "Though the music rights are still owned by Harmony Gold, I can predict the company will be unlikely to authorize a digital transfer as the license to which it is attached is expired (i.e. no projected revenue stream, no funds to spend). If the present license holder (FUNimation) is willing to cover material costs, and some type of simple agreement can be reached to permit the reproduction of the music as a DVD extra, etc. by FUNimation, I suppose it can be done. Yes, a lot of red tape to get this obscure gem back out, but I'm just giving you the proper procedure to do it, by the book. Let me know what you want to do next."

I asked him if he knew what might be on it, and he replied, "It's a mystery, as it is on a 4-track analog reel that can only be played back on a professional (circa 70s-80s) reel-to-reel deck. We did this recently with Robotech's music to digitally remaster the tracks as the digitization hardware available today is better than what was available decades ago. However, these analog decks are disappearing from service and will be a vintage rarity in a matter of time. I didn't take a pic of the Dragonball reel yet, but here's what our Robotech reels look like."

- imgur. link
- imgur. link

I told him I would pay for it back in February of 2012, and asked for the next steps. He then said he'd speak with his legal department. After that, I never heard back.

I then contacted people at FUNimation and received some interest from the (now former) Marketing Manager in charge of Dragon Ball, Curtis Shaw. He said, "We would love to get our hands on it. Ultimately, though, it will be up to negotiations with TOEI of whether we can use it. I know that you are offering it up free, but since Harmony Gold no longer has the license, more than likely, TOEI retains those rights and we will have to negotiate or pay for them. Even though it’s the same footage (maybe) it is a version that is not spelled out in our contract. Let’s get started and see what the footage is, what we think it’s value as a release would be, then we can start speaking with TOEI about the project."

In reply, Harmony Gold said they don't want anything to do with it, and they're happy to give it to FUNimation. And as we know, TOEI doesn't want any of the original broadcast audio, since they're a bunch of goofs, so to FUNimation it goes.

I then followed up several, several times, with both FUNimation and Tommy, without hearing anything. But now I can just call Christopher Sabat and Tommy directly if I feel like it. So I guess I'll do that tomorrow-ish.

I still think there's another tape in the vault, that I mentioned before, but maybe I've got my facts mixed up. It's been over 4 to 5 years since I concentrated on this, and I'm just trying to reply to people here because they asked about it. So I'll give them a call and see what I can do.

[linkdude20002001]

I'd say give yourself time to refresh your memory on it if need be. But if you can get the ball rolling again, the money shouldn't be a problem. We want this to happen. Maybe Funimation can put out a limited release, possibly by preoder-only. Or maybe even have it be a digital-only release. Whatever would be the most cost effective for FUNi.

[eledoremassis02]

Id love for a SHOUT! type release. I'm watching their big boss wich includes an never before heard English dub! I think there would be a huge market if they offered it and if they could throw original broadcast they would be awesome too! Unfortunately I think they hit their limit with their main fan-base (Falconer English dub) unless they include the original Toonami dub for the span that what changed.

I'd say give yourself time to refresh your memory on it if need be. But if you can get the ball rolling again, the money shouldn't be a problem. We want this to happen. Maybe Funimation can put out a limited release, possibly by preoder-only. Or maybe even have it be a digital-only release. Whatever would be the most cost effective for FUNi.

I wish FUNi would do amazon MOD/Warner archiveing type releases. That way we could atleast get 4x3 DBZ on bluray and it doesnt even have to be pretty since its a MOD. Here is a pretty accurate reveiw of Amazons MOD (littely burned to disc not pressed)

Manufactured on demand DVD-Rs always arrive with disclaimers that the featured title "has not been remastered or restored." It's a good idea to lower your expectations for a long-shelved TV movie coming to disc this way. But you need not lower them too much here, because The Halloween Tree actually looks quite good for a nearly twenty-year-old cartoon. On a few occasions, you'll notice a single vertical line briefly running down the screen. More frequent but less striking are the scattered miniscule specks. Beyond that, you're mostly in the clear. The 1.33:1 picture satisfies, the animation staying clean and avoiding any major concerns.

[clutchins]

Id love for a SHOUT! type release. I'm watching their big boss wich includes an never before heard English dub! I think there would be a huge market if they offered it and if they could throw original broadcast they would be awesome too! Unfortunately I think they hit their limit with their main fan-base (Falconer English dub) unless they include the original Toonami dub for the span that what changed.

I'd say give yourself time to refresh your memory on it if need be. But if you can get the ball rolling again, the money shouldn't be a problem. We want this to happen. Maybe Funimation can put out a limited release, possibly by preoder-only. Or maybe even have it be a digital-only release. Whatever would be the most cost effective for FUNi.

I wish FUNi would do amazon MOD/Warner archiveing type releases. That way we could atleast get 4x3 DBZ on bluray and it doesnt even have to be pretty since its a MOD. Here is a pretty accurate reveiw of Amazons MOD (littely burned to disc not pressed)

Manufactured on demand DVD-Rs always arrive with disclaimers that the featured title "has not been remastered or restored." It's a good idea to lower your expectations for a long-shelved TV movie coming to disc this way. But you need not lower them too much here, because The Halloween Tree actually looks quite good for a nearly twenty-year-old cartoon. On a few occasions, you'll notice a single vertical line briefly running down the screen. More frequent but less striking are the scattered miniscule specks. Beyond that, you're mostly in the clear. The 1.33:1 picture satisfies, the animation staying clean and avoiding any major concerns.

On the surface hat sounds like a good idea, but after reading this Answerman column on ANN, I'm not so optimistic.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerm ... 17/.103327

[DerekPadula]

I called Tommy at Harmony Gold, and he said, "That ship may have sailed." They cleaned out their vaults a few years ago and probably got rid of the tape, as they no longer had any incentive to keep it. That means they most likely sent it back to Toei, where it would be destroyed.

But he wants to help, so he's going to check the vault and see if it's still there. Let's cross our fingers.

[TheBlackPaladin]

That's unfortunate, but I'll keep my hopes up until I hear otherwise. When they remastered Blade Runner for Ridley Scott's "Final Cut," they did so using visual and audio materials that were thought to have been lost. Where were they? In a warehouse, where they had been marked for destruction for several years, and were only still around due to a clerical error...one of the most fortunate clerical errors ever, apparently.

[superrayman3]

That's unfortunate, but I'll keep my hopes up until I hear otherwise. When they remastered Blade Runner for Ridley Scott's "Final Cut," they did so using visual and audio materials that were thought to have been lost. Where were they? In a warehouse, where they had been marked for destruction for several years, and were only still around due to a clerical error...one of the most fortunate clerical errors ever, apparently.

I sincerely hope the same luck will pan out true for that audio reel, Blade Runner was very lucky because of that clerical error, let's hope the people that cleaned house on the HG vaults either missed the Dragon Ball reel or saw it and decided to leave it alone knowing it has a place in Anime history and needed to be kept (highly unlikely but you never know).

[bman78]

I called Tommy at Harmony Gold, and he said, "That ship may have sailed." They cleaned out their vaults a few years ago and probably got rid of the tape, as they no longer had any incentive to keep it. That means they most likely sent it back to Toei, where it would be destroyed.

But he wants to help, so he's going to check the vault and see if it's still there. Let's cross our fingers.

I honestly hope that audio tape is still there, or if it was cleared with the other HG tapes, maybe they can still track it down if it's not destroyed.

[SSGSS Goku]

Hopefully if the tape is forever gone, kei17 will upload a few more clips of the Harmony Gold dub, since I know that the chance of the full 1st episode of the Harmony Gold dub being uploaded publicly online is near 0%